To think people shouldn't have sex with people unless you would both be happy and able to raise children together?

Contraception fails and are abortions particularly something we would hope our children get the joyful experience of in their lifetimes?

Exactly no guarantees, so shouldn’t people just do what they want when they want in these circumstances?

No it's not a cure all, and admittedly it's no guarantee. But it does provide a lot of rights and protections and security. Which is why it exists, after all, in the first place. This site is proof positive that women - and the children -, are basically fucked without it.

I find it sad that so many parents don't pay maintenance and have ways around it.
Maybe if the state went after them and made them pay their way for their children then things might be a lot fairer. Im always amazed at how they manage to get away with not paying for their offspring and seems to have gone on for decades.

There are no guarantees.
Just better chances.

What study was that? You said 95% of women.

How would 95% of women who've had abortions have answered a study?

You mean 95% of whatever amount of women they asked. It could have been 200 women

I've never said anything about restricting abortions.

I've said that abortion should be available.

But I've also said that it's a serious medical procedure and it can cause a lot of trauma to some women.

What I think they should develop is better male contraceptives. So women don't have to go through all the decisions and the potential trauma

I do there should be more pressure on men to pay maintenance

What does it mean to be valid though? Used as an argument against abortion being available?

Maybe it was the wrong choice for her. Would she have benefitted from having her choice restricted? In a place where abortion wasn't freely available, would she have had the baby or had to use a backstreet abortionist, or travel overseas?

No easy answers but restricting choice doesn't help.

No one said that all women suffer trauma though did they.

Women are not a hive mind, and every woman has different experiences.

You didn't suffer trauma and your experience is valid.

I know a woman who suffers a lot of psychological trauma after getting an abortion. To the extent where she crys about it ten years later. Her experience is also valid

Quite. Research shows 95% of women do not regret their abortions (I heard two years ago that has now gone to 99%).

No acknowledgement of the women who feel their life has been, or would have been ruined by feeling obliged to carry a pregnancy to full-term and deliver a child they neither wanted, nor were interested in having.

I had one termination due to contraception failure. I've had sex thousands of times in my life, so I don't see that as particularly alarming or in any way a suggestion that I'd have fared better by just abstaining completely. I don't regret my termination in any way, I never give it much thought if I'm honest, and I'm still absolutely of the mind that not having it would have resulted in a child that would have exacerbated my own poor mental health, a child that I did not love, and a child that I resented for "ruining" my life even though I had full agency and the reason for the child's existence was entirely down to me. It was also a pregnancy by a man I had no intention of ever having children with, and would never have wanted to be tied to for the length of time it takes to raise a child to independence.

Feel free to judge me, but I neither give shit for your opinion, nor feel obliged to live by your moral standards, because I do not necessarily share them. So no, it isn't remotely the case that all women who have a termination regret it or suffer trauma as a result. Mine saved me from a lifetime of regret and doubtless also trauma.

No acknowledgement of the women who feel their life has been, or would have been ruined by feeling obliged to carry a pregnancy to full-term and deliver a child they neither wanted, nor were interested in having.

I had one termination due to contraception failure. I've had sex thousands of times in my life, so I don't see that as particularly alarming or in any way a suggestion that I'd have fared better by just abstaining completely. I don't regret my termination in any way, I never give it much thought if I'm honest, and I'm still absolutely of the mind that not having it would have resulted in a child that would have exacerbated my own poor mental health, a child that I did not love, and a child that I resented for "ruining" my life even though I had full agency and the reason for the child's existence was entirely down to me. It was also a pregnancy by a man I had no intention of ever having children with, and would never have wanted to be tied to for the length of time it takes to raise a child to independence.

Feel free to judge me, but I neither give shit for your opinion, nor feel obliged to live by your moral standards, because I do not necessarily share them. So no, it isn't remotely the case that all women who have a termination regret it or suffer trauma as a result. Mine saved me from a lifetime of regret and doubtless also trauma.

This is a curious take considering

1. The world is full of people who are in perfectly happy, long-lasting relationships with happy, well-adjusted kids, who have never contemplated marriage
2. This site is also full of women complaining about how marriage has failed and left them up shit creek regardless.
3. 50% of marriages end in divorce in any case, which suggests that married relationships aren't any more viable long-term than unmarried ones.

@CrochetForLife

Not sentient or nerve receptors till the third trimester? How are babies surviving before 24 weeks?

@AgileGreenSeal I think you are underestimating the impact an unwanted pregnancy can have on a woman's mental, and indeed physical, health. To be honest, I don't understand what people who talk about women being traumatised by abortion are getting at. Are you using it as a reason for restricting abortion rights?

start the message early. so at least you know you tried!!

my boys know exactly what I expect of them.

They’re only just teenagers but we talk about this stuff, unfortunately they’ve seen the consequences of feckless fathering on their extended family, so are fairly wise. At the moment anyway.

I tell them:

don’t have a child with somebody you don’t love enough to marry.

don’t mess around young fertile women if you’re dithering about children yourself

don’t have sex just for the sake of it. Women aren’t sperm receptacles.

porn damages everybody.

I know they won’t stick to the above but it’s a good aim. I’d be devastated to raise the horrors you hear about on MN. My boys have no excuse given they’re blessed with a wonderful dad, and my only wish in life really if that they become good men.

This.