AIBU to not want to call my daughter’s genitals her vagina?

Absolutely. My mother passed on to her three daughters an internalised shame about female bodies and their processes, and that these must at all costs be concealed from men, or it wasn’t ‘nice’.

We grew up with an outdoor loo and later on a tiny loo built just inside the back door which she wouldn’t allow a bin in, so periods involved keeping sanitary towels hidden in our bedroom, hiding them up our sleeves, walking through living room and kitchen, changing a pad, wrapping the soiled one in toilet paper and sneaking it back to our bedroom via the same route. Used pads were kept in a plastic bag in your drawer and sneaked out periodically to the outside bin. It was a miserable way to deal with starting your periods.

And this was compounded by her total lack of vocabulary for periods. To this day she refers to a period as ‘the other old thing’.

Use the proper terms.

My kids know the real words but we use nicknames in day to day conversation.

I just used the term vulva.

I don’t understand why you wouldn’t?

"Ugly"

really.. words for female genitals are not 'ugly' you're just dealing with internalised misogyny that teaches that female sex organs are 'dirty' and it makes you uncomfortable and avoidant.

Stop passing that on to your kids. Its a Vulva, those are inner and outer Labia, and the inside bit is the Vagina ffs.

Own it.

My discomfort at the words is typical of the male-centred, period shaming vibe I was taught by my uptight mother.

We have tried very hard to raise our child with no body shame. She uses the right words and has done from a young age. She has no qualms about asking her dad to bring a sanitary pad into the bathroom for her.

It's been uphill for me more than her but it's worth it to eradicate generations of shame women have felt about their bodies and the natural functions it has.

Stick with the proper words for her sake.

The whole bit about CPS and not using the correct terms is easily sorted. The investigator should ask “what do you use that for” and “do you know another name for that” when the children use words like flower. They will usual answer “to wee out of” or “to poo out of”. In many years investigating child sexual abuse I rarely heard children use the correct terms for these body parts.

We use vulva. It did feel a bit strange at first, because it's not really a word that's commonly used, but now it's just normal. Both DD and DS use vulva and penis.

Also pp’s on this thread are highlighting the importance of precise and unambiguous labels in the context of CSA- quite right- but also these labels are important in more everyday medical contexts! There are reasons we have words to describe different things FFS. Why is this so controversial when it comes to female body parts?

Just to set the record straight on the crime thing- children who call their genitals by the correct name are statistically LESS LIKELY to be VICTIMS of SA. It's for prevention, not prosecution.

I always wonder what’s wrong with ‘fanny’, too.

I can’t really articulate it, it’s not rational I just find it absolutely disgusting. I actually prefer “pussy” to “Fanny” even though it’s much worse on paper.

I would teach her that the proper words are vulva for the bits you can see, vagina for the inside parts, and that boys have a penis and testicles - but that she can use private parts or bits (or whatever, those are my preference) and willy for boys as they're easy to remember and say.

All I’ll say is that as someone who used to work on CSA cases

I think that because of CSA and sexual assault/rape, women should probably use vulva & vagina ... Because it could be relevant re. what they are referring to.

Indeed.

Your insistence on reading stories of child SA is a bit weird OP. People involved in that line of work have said it's common, that should be enough?

You haven't actually explained why you don't want to use vulva or vagina. Is it because you're squeamish? I'd sort out your internal misogyny and then you'll be fine.

Also it's not "all the rage" its literally always been called a vulva.

What about private parts or privates

Well the general populace isn't exactly intellectual.

Doesn't mean everyone has to go along with it.

I'm not using it just because Love Island Contestants don't know what a vagina is.

also vulva? No one says that anywhere.

Some people do use vulva.

Personally I find it better than cringing listening to people say things like "I waxed my vagina" and "he saw my vagina".

No, you didn't.

And no, he didn't.

Language evolves and changes over time and some words shift meaning. ‘Vagina’ is now nearly always used in place of the word vulva, and pretty much understood by most people to mean that.

It’s not about being “dull and dim witted” - using different words “flower” etc can cause an ambiguity that makes it hard to ascertain what actually happened and prove it to the required standard. All I’ll say is that as someone who used to work on CSA cases, I’m teaching my girls to use vagina, just in case.

Google “snippafallet” or «snippadomen” and use google translate.

I've always used the proper names. I don't think it's terrible to use willy or - no.idea what the equivalent for women's genitalia is- as long as it's something that unequivocally defines the object. Words are there to make communication easier so if you use strange words that people won't understand it defeats the purpose.

I prefer penis and vulva/vagina as to me most other terms sound either derogatory, like swear words or sexualised.

Agree. Really weird. You've repeatedly asked for this “proof” now. Why? Is the issue here really about names? And if it is (and I don’t think it is), what is your objection to using the correct anatomical names?

We use the medical terms vulva, vagina, penis and testicles. CSA is not the main reason and not really that high up in my thinking. They are the names of those body parts and it blows my mind that anyone would try to teach their children bullshit euphemistic words because - what? Their body and their child’s body are shameful things? Fuck that. I have had to explain that some people use incorrect words. My kids are so unbothered by this. Just like they were when I said “that’s your eyebrow, that’s your big toe…” etc.

Yep.

Vulva or labia is fine and correct (assuming you are referring to the outer genitalia). Vagina is the internal part/birth canal. I really don't know why there is such a widespread misuse of the word. Why bother using an official anatomical word but incorrectly?

So many people are squeamish about "vulva" but why? If you can say vagina, you can say vulva. I think it must relate to the misogynistic idea that the female genitals are dirty and disgusting i.e. vagina is passable because it's the birth canal but vulvas are smelly, yucky and ugly. I'm not having that! Vulva is a perfectly normal body part and nothing to be ashamed of.

In our house we do also say "privates" as we have a boy and a girl and that covers both (it's not for reasons of coyness). I admit I do sometimes say "flaps" for vulva which I know some will think is a vulgar term but to me it's just descriptive - labia are folds/flaps of flesh. Sorry if that offends!

Exactly.