To think that parents should be more responsible for their children’s behaviour in public?

A lot of parents also do not realise they don’t need to be loud to be effective. Constantly shouting at kids to stop doing something isn’t effective if they haven’t stopped doing it. Say it once and if it continues then go over and stop them. If they can’t stop, remove them. I was out yesterday and saw two families who couldn’t control their kids. Couple A just yelled threats loudly the whole time. Nothing happened. Couple B whimpered “don’t do that”, “stop doing that” on loop. Nothing happened. Just no boundaries and no awareness it was a pain for people around them trying to have a nice time. If kids don’t learn that when you say no, you mean no, they will run rings around you. On holiday this summer I saw kids at the hotel buffet going up and putting their fingers in food, helping themselves and dropping things on the floor. Young kids need supervision but some parents just don’t care and unfortunately you are 100% going to be faced with aggression if you dare comment on it these days.

I've been known to pick up my tantruming child and carry her out of a shop to deal with her. Because in a shop isn't the place is it. Calmed her down elsewhere. The looks I got for carrying a screaming child out we're either huge sympathy or proper judgement.

Who is Ms Rachel?

Oh I agree. DS3 was having a tantrum in M&S a month or so ago. I took him outside and stood out of the way holding his hands and talking him out of his tantrum. Practicing his breathing and using his words etc. The number of weird looks I got, yet they'd be the same one giving me daggers at him rolling around on the floor in M&S... Like you say damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I agree and it should be like this, however I do feel like there's enough modern parents that would take issue with their child being told off that it would make me hesitate even though I otherwise have no issue reminding kids what they ought to be doing or why something is dangerous.

Depends on the parents and in any family/friend contexts we're all in full village mode but I've actually had people tell me not to tell off other people's children (not parents but when I've mentioned seeing poor behaviour and being on the verge of correcting, people I mentioned it to have said not to get involved). Interested to hear what you think though!

A French friend of a dd said not long ago that French parents were rather stricter (more harsh were IIRC her actual words) than U.K. parents. Should add that she’s a mother of 3 and has lived in the U.K.

There was a book not long ago entitled ‘French Children Don’t Throw Food’.
Presumably the gist of the contents were that French parents don’t allow them to!

As a pp said, ‘child friendly’ is too often taken in the U.K. to mean that children should be allowed to behave exactly as they like, no matter where they happen to be. And anyone who dares to object is an evil child-hater.

Yes- young children’s ears are biologically designed to respond to low frequencies… has anyone told that to Ms Rachel.

A lot of people on this thread are talking about a "village" but we can't have that in the UK, those days are gone.

A village means an entire community (family, friends, neighbours, teachers, strangers etc) participating in raising children into decent, well rounded adults. This involves looking out for them, guiding them and keeping them out of mischief. This will involve teaching them right from wrong and disciplining them if necessary. But parents are expected to play their part in laying the foundations of their child's behaviour, and pulling their weight in raising their dc day in day out.

In the UK parenting has become very insular. Parents struggle to manage their dc's behaviour, but rather than asking for help and guidance they get defensive. They see anyone else trying to help as interfering and they take offense. They complain about this interference because doing so is more palatable than facing up their own failures.

Add to that the modern concept from some parents that their children are the centre of the universe and you have a perfect storm. Some parents think that no one has the right to tell their children off, and that only behaviour that they themselves deem unacceptable should be disciplined, and only by themselves. They don't consider that other people might have different standards of children's behaviour, or that their child's behaviour could be having a negative impact on others. Just because you think it's fine, it doesn't mean that it's fine for everyone else.

So no, we don't get to have a "village" to raise our dc in the UK because people are scared of getting a mouthful if they try to guide a child in learning right from wrong.

It's possible to quietly parent, keeping public loudness for actual danger.

So in every single restaurant in Spain and Italy if children are being loud they get sent outside? And that's being child friendly is it? So over here if a couple of 5 year olds are running about screaming they should be sent outside by themselves onto busy main roads in the pouring rain? Without even telling their parents?

Loads of restaurants I've been to are child friendly. Have children's menus. Often have some colouring in or activity sheets to do. Some have a play area. Child friendly doesn't mean that children should be welcome to crawl under another couples table at 9pm. And as others have pointed out, in this country if you do tell children not to do that, the parents will shout AT YOU for daring to tell their child off.

Gentle parenting! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

But yesterday I also read a thread with someone complaining about people parenting too loudly as apparently that’s performance parenting. You parent in public, you’re wrong, you don’t parent and you are also wrong.
I think I’ll keep just doing whatever works for me and my children as someone on mumsnet will always be prepared to burn me at the stake for whatever I decide to do or not do anyway.

No child should be running around a cafe or restaurant.

• it is disruptive for other customers
• it is disrespectful of the staff and makes their job harder if they are carrying food and drinks around
• it is a health and safety risk: the child could knock down hot liquid or food and burn themselves or cause someone else to be hurt...

It really is basic parenting to make sure your kids don't cause a nuisance in this types of places.

No need for a 'village': your kid, your responsibility...

Many people are just so entitled these days. Cafes, shops, business spaces.. these are not areas for children to run around in but you see it all the time. Take your kids to the park, playground, soft play, your friends garden. It’s convenience though isn’t it, as long as the parents are having a good time, sod everyone else.

Went for a meal in a pub the tables were close to the bar, outside was a covered area and then the garden. A youn girl aged about 10 kept running in and out and around the bar. Parents did diddly squat.
Completely inappropriate that a 19mth old even got as far as behind the reception desk. I recall that out accommodation I. France was booked kindly by our friends without kids. The hotel reception was a parents nightmare one cloth covered table had a large glass of flowers on it. My twins were 2 yrs old and all three of my children had been in the car for 4hrs. Toddlers were kept on reins as the lift was too small for the double buggy. There really is a time and a place to let your child explore !

The 'village' theory only works though when parents take control too.

Example being in a soft play when a 7 year old was hitting my three year old. Mother sat at the table, smiling away, refusing to tell her child off but soon started scowling when I told her son off.

PP's 19 month old clearly wasn't in quick reach of a parent if they ended up behind the reception desk though.

Same goes for running around a GP waiting room, running on the seating area and piercing screams. It's not a playground or as I was told "yes they absolutely can run around, the floor is carpeted (carpet tiles over concrete) and there aren't sharks in there" whilst demonstrating swimming!

Yes, children can be a nightmare in public. Running around, screaming around and shouting, while. parents sit oblivious on their phones or talking.🤷‍♀️

Lazy parenting. 🙄

I don't understand this. I've been to lots of places in the world. I've never seen a culture where children running around restaurants etc and crawling under other people's tables is acceptable and described as being child friendly.

Children should not be getting into places they aren't allowed either. That's also not "not being child friendly". I work in dentistry. It was fairly recently I was working and my surgery door opened and two small children ran in laughing. I assumed a parent would be right behind them apologising but nope. I had to stop treating my patient and take all my gloves off etc while asking where their parents were. They didn't just run in and back out again. They came right in and started roaming around the surgery touching stuff. They were 3-4 years old. I had to physically grab one of them to stop them touching the dirty instruments on my tray. I managed to get them back out and mum was just sitting in the waiting room reading her phone. I told her she needed to keep her children with her and she just sighed loudly and shouted at them to sit down then went back her phone. They proceded to climb on some chairs and pull lots of leaflets off a stand. I had to get back to my patient and leave the receptionist trying to stop them.

I agree both that it is not acceptable to allow children to run around in a cafe, or in a hotel lobby, and that the UK is not child friendly.

You don't need to be a disciplinarian to teach your children how to behave in different situations. It does take a lot of effort and engagement though.

Huge difference between walking around a hotel lobby to keep a toddler occupied while the other parent checks in - been there, and as a PP said it's particularly necessary after a long car journey to get them out and moving - and the toddler running around unchecked to the extent they get behind the desk!

Hotel lobbies can be busy with lots of people moving luggage and waiters bringing hot drinks.

I hate when people let their DC run around cafes and restaurants - it's not safe and it's not the place. They're places to practise sitting nicely, making conversation etc.

I have. Not all people parent the same way you do, which is why threads like this happen.

MIL once snapped at my BIL for letting his 18 month old run round a restaurant while we were having a family meal, neither he nor SIL were interested in stopping him. My DD would never have been left to run. One of us would have taken her to investigate if she needed to move. But we have also told her she needs to stay in her high chair til one of us is finished eating.

If we weren't able to get her to behave appropriately (it happens), we would leave. We'd try again another time, but we wouldn't just let her run around on her own. We'd also limit how much she wandered around with one of us, because that's not what settings like that are for.

I remember that, but honestly these days, who'd say anything to a child? I wouldn't. I'd be far more likely to get a mouthful off Mum and Dad than my parents' generation ever would have.
If we got told off by adults when we were out playing as kids (and it certainly wasn't always in a nice way, sometimes we were yelled at) we didn't go running home to say, 'oh, the mean people said this', because we knew damn well if we got told off we deserved it, and we'd be hearing about it again from our parents.

And my parents (70s/80s) would have been mortified if we ran around in a cafe. We would have been out of there in double-quick time and hearing about it all the way home. Just like we'd have heard about screaming at the top of our lungs in the garden.

I really don't think kids were more supervised in the past. Young children were expected to be out the house without an adult for several hours (with other kids) until at least the 90s. Children were left in cars so parents could go to the pub. The culture of adult supervision is increasing massively across the developed world - see the work of Professor Peter Gray.