To think that parents should be more responsible for their children’s behaviour in public?

Parents want the village when it comes to everyone else looking after/keeping an eye on their kids whilst they relax, or otherwise being tolerant of all their noise/disruption.

They do not want a village when it comes to anyone else instructing their children or telling them off, or when it requires them to be tolerant of other people.

Child-friendly societies involve both parts. The UK is only unfriendly in the sense that strangers won’t just agree to love all children and never criticise their behaviour or parents.

I can see both sides to this.

One one hand I told a lad off for deliberately pushing little ones at soft play once - his mum, who had been sat on her phone not paying any attention, came over later and started swearing at me. In front of the kids. Lovely 🙄

On the other hand, I was once in the park with my friend and our kids. The ice cream man came, but we'd had one at home after lunch so we said no not today. None of the kids kicked off / had a tantrum, but my friends boy said (in an "isn't that odd" kind of way) "why does he only come when we've already had one" and before we could say anything, an older "gentleman" who was behind us leant in and said, in a really nasty, snarky tone "looks like someone thinks the world revolves around him" 🙄 Just why?? The kid wasn't kicking off, or crying or anything he was literally just wondering to himself out loud and this man just took a chance to be a prick. Who has that much contempt for a 4 year old pondering about the routine of an ice cream van?? Why say anything?

Hahaha. If you chastised someone else's child these days, even nicely, you'll most likely get abuse back from their parents

My brother lives in Italy, married to an Italian lady, they have young children. I honestly don't recognise this free and easy, kids everywhere doing what they like idea people have of 'Europe'. Certainly my brother's children and their Italian cousins are very much expected to behave in public.

Who was gawping at smartphones in the scenario described? Children were happily playing and parents were merrily chatting.

In Greece, most villages have a square with a big tree, with cafes around. The parents sit and eat, while the kids all play together in the square. It’s expected for non-parents to gently tell children off if they misbehave. It’s usually well after their bed time in the UK.

Of course tourist areas, that rely on tourist revenue, smile indulgently. That doesn’t mean they like some of the behavior exhibited, or would tolerate it in their own children.

I grew up ‘in Europe’. If I misbehaved any nearby adult wouldn’t hesitate to discipline me, and I was expected to conform to my environment, rather than expect the environment to conform to me. In many European countries that have ‘the village’ mentality, if parents fail to control their children someone else would do it for them, and comment would be passed to the parent in regards to their own failure. That is ‘the village’, and I don’t necessarily think a lot of UK parents would like it.

Are you in London?

Also agree about the village.

Except todays village is full of ineffective parents who lose their rag of anyone does does their job for them.

It's true there are no kid friendly places anymore. But that doesn't excuse bad behaviour in adult spaces.

When I was little our local pub ad a magician every Saturday fortnight. We kids sat with our panda pop and crisps and ran about the garden whilst the dads had a pint (or 3!) inside.

Mums got an evening to themselves!

But even if that existed nowadays it would be called mysoginistic but the truth is we loved those evenings out with dad (back then we still had sahm) and we did interact with them in the main bar but we also knew and did sit sensibly in there.

(Running outside across the bridge pretending the tyre underneath was a troll was a whole different ball game 😂)

Yeah, I get this A LOT. Doesn't stop me though

This isn't true in much of the UK tbh.

I agree, but I think we've made it really hard to do that. Everything is structured around cars, so it's hard to find safe walkable places for kids

It's not normal to let a toddler run around in places they shouldn't be, such as behind a reception desk.

That’s a pretty normal behaviour for a toddler though.
as long as parent gets him pretty quickly i don’t see a problem?

Just ask the children to be quieter nicely. Kids listen to others more than their parents.

Sounds like you were doing a great job though! People can be so annoying

@MidnightPatrol
You can’t restrain them all the time though, they do need some opportunities to explore.
but not behind a reception desk, it's not cute or funny. The amount of parents who smile and laugh at bad behaviour/lazy parenting is frustrating.

My youngest is 19 now and I do think behaviour is worse.
It's nearly impossible to go into a cafe without there being under 5s being left to wander whilst mummy chats.
It's not my job to chat to or entertain your child, then in a restaurant again wandering or listening to tablets at deafening levels. Screaming, shouting kids and not one adult asks them to quieten down.
It's not about being child friendly it's about parents actually parenting.
If your child cannot sit at a table then don't bring them.

I used to know someone who evidently quietly enjoyed it when her children were annoying other people in public. She’d sit there with a secret little smile on her face, while doing or saying nothing. She had form for occasional anti social behaviour, though, so I dare say she enjoyed seeing her children doing what she’d have quite liked to do, too.

I mean I did get some looks whilst carrying him out over my shoulder screaming I won't lie. I couldn't give a toss though. He walked back in nicely holding my hand ten minutes later when he'd had the boundary explained again to him.

I have 5, my parenting has most definitely evolved over the years. Started off (15 years ago now) feeling like DH and I were such enlightened, laid back, modern, liberated parents. About 5 years in and I soon started to place a higher regard on gentle but firm and unyielding discipline and boundaries.

But letting kids run about cafes is not only selfish to the other customers but it's also really thick and dangerous. Morons.

It's very rare I take mine as toddlers to cafes, children like to run about! I'd get my hot drink to go from the national trust cafe and drink it outside while they ran about. Or fill up a flask and drive to the beach. Never once in 15 years have I sat in Costa while my children dashed about or watched an electronic device. Poor parenting.

You are not being unreasonable at all. Yesterday I was sharing a lift with another family in museum. The kid, no older than 10. Smiled and let me get off first. I said thank you. He said 'you're welcome'. This encounter stuck with me because it was so unusual. Nearly every time I go to a museum or gallery there are kids running riot who really ought to know better, parents are not in sight/in the cafe.

At the same time @SusieBBB has a great point about the swimming scenario. I wouldn't have a problem with that. If you don't like the sound of traffic don't by a house on the main road.

I totally agree with you, I see it all too often and as a parent I am quite appalled that parents just sit oblivious to their kids running around cafes/ restaurants. It's annoying, it's not the place to do that and it's not safe.
I have 2 DC, my eldest listened and would stop and tbh she just seemed to alway know how to behave so was pretty easy. My DS now 6 however, needs constant reminders/ been told to sit etc, and he's finally getting the memo, but I have never sat and ignored it and why would you? I just don't get those that do, but there are plenty of them!

Very true.

But saw a child breaking violently little tree branch and told him not to and he tills me n the most bratty voice that I'm or his mother and he'll do whatever he wants.
His mother was standing there 2 meters away from him fully engaged in conversation with someone else, couldn't care less.

It's the following through on consequences that doesn't happen too. I'll do the whole "stop that". "If you don't stop that then X will happen". "If you haven't stopped by 3 then X is happening" "1,2,3....ok, X". Cue tears. But after twice of the consequences actually happening, the threat is usually all that's needed and it can be delivered in a very calm way.

I have friends who do the whimpering thing and then complain about meltdowns (which are actually just tantrums) and kids not listening.

Follow through. Or they know there's no consequences.