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Take the plunge now or wait until secondary? Tearing my hair out and at loggerheads with DP

257 replies

Munneyworries · 21/09/2024 12:19

Me and DP started saving for DD’s school fees when she was born. She’s due to go to school next September and we should have 100k saved by then. The school we are looking at is 18k a year for prep (including VAT), rising to 24k (including vat) at secondary level (obviously may be more by the time she starts secondary).

DP is adamant that she should start next year and our plan that we use 10k drawn down from savings per year and the rest from income. His argument is that the surplus needed from income equates to the same as the nursery fees per month that we have been paying and things have been fine.

I get where he is coming from but I just don’t feel we have enough buffer yet. I don’t want to put her in and then take her out etc. The local primary school is not good in terms of reputation for teaching etc but it is a nice place and friendly and I don’t think it will cause her harm to go there.

We have been arguing about this constantly since viewing the prep school this last week and DP wanting to basically sign up to it immediately. I feel so stressed and don’t want to make a mistake for dd who realistically won’t know the difference between the two schools regardless of which one she starts at.

OP posts:
Munneyworries · 21/09/2024 17:21

notwavingbutdrowning1 · 21/09/2024 14:35

Just to say, I know several primary school teachers who thoroughly resent parents who put their kids in a state primary then go on to send them to a private secondary school. They feel that middle-class parents/those affluent enough to pay fees should not use the state system as a kind of primer then withdraw at the level where it's really important to have the support of those parents in the system.

Obviously you will do what you want to do, but you might like to think a bit about the implications, OP.

@notwavingbutdrowning1 i am not sure I see where you are coming from. What implications? You mean if we then had to go back to state? But by then they would be in secondary anyway? Or do you mean a moral/conscience implication?

OP posts:
ZeroFucksGivenToday · 21/09/2024 17:16

Agree on all the other comments that 8 is too small. DD went to a tiny (state) primary. 17 kids in her school year. It was a nightmare. No way to get away from kids that didn't gel, or any arguments quickly blew up into massive things.
we moved her to a school with bigger class sizes in KS2. Best thing I ever did for her.

MellersSmellers · 21/09/2024 17:08

Hmmmmamilucky · 21/09/2024 12:26

definitely don’t bother with prep school…save all that money for senior school instead. Primary school is a lot about social skills and input from home as much as school in terms of reading with them etc. I don’t think prep would give them an academic advantage as long a you are willing to put the work in at home to support their learning. What is the reason you want to send them private?

This.
Save your money

AuntieObnoxious · 21/09/2024 17:07

My children went to a state primary school with mixed aged classes e.g 4-7. It worked really well. To say the children have different needs that’s the same for any class, I say that as a teacher. What mixed age classes appear to do extremely well is encourage the older children to support and nourish the younger ones. To fully learning a new skill, first recognition of a new skill, then understanding the skill, practicing the skill and finally being able to explain/teach the skill. While younger children just love being taught with older peers. It is the explaining part the is what is needed for good exam grades.
Please don’t let the mixed age class put you off, I did feel anxious about it myself, but seeing it in practice has change my view on it completely. My DD is one of only students in her year predicted to gain all grade 9s, along with one of her friends from the primary school.

Marine30 · 21/09/2024 17:07

We did private all the way through for DD and DS did 1.5 years state in local primary. DH got a big work deal so if was ok money wise but if I had to do it again - or definitely if it was going to be a struggle - I really think prep is mainly bells and whistles and I don’t think it gave my two a huge advantage. Yes, classes were smaller and more individual attention but up to 11 I think that can easily be made up later on.
There are so many good primaries and junior state schools around. Even if they’re not that great you can supplement the work with reading at home and being involved with their education. Most areas offer lots of extra curricular clubs too so you can add these - it’s just that they won’t all be on one site but it won’t mean they’re worse.
If your DH is that keen do it later but not yet.

Growlybear83 · 21/09/2024 17:03

@WandaFishy99 the attitude of this particular head was outrageous. She was generally incredibly patronising and appeared to be quite irritated by the questions some parents were asking during her talk after we had toured the school. One of the parents in the audience asked how the school supported children with physical disabilities. The head gave examples of current pupils, one of whom she described as having a 'gammy leg', another as being 'blind as a bat' and then went on to say, and I quote "so girls with wobbly legs, floppy arms, we've got them all here, and we can cope with anything". I'm not sure whether I was more shocked with what the head said, or the parents I could see nodding approvingly as my daughter and I were walking out.

Mummyoflittledragon · 21/09/2024 17:03

Chatgbt · 21/09/2024 13:39

There's no need to be at same school all way through, they get a sort of same school ' fatigue ' , state is totally fine, save it till she's older. I've done both btw, state primary then transition to private, was all fine .

This is true. My 16 yo dd is at a small private school - circa 45 per year in the senior school. She started in year 9 as she initially wanted to go to state secondary. The kids, who were at the school from young / prep have chosen to leave for A levels / T levels, mostly preferring one of the large state colleges in a town near them. Only one has gone to boarding school.

A few also left her school to go elsewhere for years 10 and 11 or joined at this point so changing between independent schools at any age is not uncommon and the majority staying for 6th form have not stayed in the school from 4 years old as they were fed up with it, despite the junior school and senior school being on different sites.

Ideally dd would have started in year 7. Year 6 or 7 is a very common entry point. What I didn’t factor in are all the extra costs. You don’t just need money for schooling. The bus and uniform are both way more expensive than state. The trips offered are brilliant. Skiing, various costly trips. Dd went skiing 2 years ago and to America. Then there is World Challenge and cheeky little overnights to London etc, all of which cost £££ and wouldn’t be offered with such frequency at state.

Then there’s expectations for the kids. It appears my dd is the only one without a laptop for 6th form so I need to get her one. Most have MacBooks. So dd wants one too and not an entry level book. Then there’s clothes and going out. Dd has more expensive tastes than were she at state. Her friend has a Rolex, Dior jewellery, Moncler coats etc. So there’s benchmarks albeit dd has a second hand Gucci. Her friends all have money so no one thinks twice about eating at a restaurant a couple of times a week or buying Starbucks and so forth. Train rides to a city 30 miles away are common and now they’ve started venturing further afield to London. All with no thought in budget.

Unless you’re in a grammar school area, save the money for secondary. If your dc is bright and would get into grammar, send them to private primary. But all the way through is absolutely not necessary.

UmberFinch · 21/09/2024 17:01

It depends on what the state funded primary option is like IMO, because some are good and are terrible. And it also depends on what the children are like too. If they are going from early years right through the private school that can be advantageous. I did state primary then private secondary, and they are different worlds. I’d probably have had more of an advantage had I gone private all the way through.

WandaFishy99 · 21/09/2024 16:54

@Growlybear83 I'm interested in what you said about the prestigious school's attitude towards special needs.
DS was temporarily in a wheelchair due to a bad sports injury when we were looking at secondary schools. We were treated as a nuisance by the nearby private school and the local state secondary could not have been more kind or helpful. We were relieved that he got a place at the state school

BreastClinic · 21/09/2024 16:54

Munneyworries · 21/09/2024 12:19

Me and DP started saving for DD’s school fees when she was born. She’s due to go to school next September and we should have 100k saved by then. The school we are looking at is 18k a year for prep (including VAT), rising to 24k (including vat) at secondary level (obviously may be more by the time she starts secondary).

DP is adamant that she should start next year and our plan that we use 10k drawn down from savings per year and the rest from income. His argument is that the surplus needed from income equates to the same as the nursery fees per month that we have been paying and things have been fine.

I get where he is coming from but I just don’t feel we have enough buffer yet. I don’t want to put her in and then take her out etc. The local primary school is not good in terms of reputation for teaching etc but it is a nice place and friendly and I don’t think it will cause her harm to go there.

We have been arguing about this constantly since viewing the prep school this last week and DP wanting to basically sign up to it immediately. I feel so stressed and don’t want to make a mistake for dd who realistically won’t know the difference between the two schools regardless of which one she starts at.

I actually feel sorry for your child. What if they are not academic? The pressure parents put on their children is nuts. There is more to life than a string of A*s followed by the 9 to 5 grind. Invest in a house for them. Then they will have so much more freedom to enjoy life.

Jennaveeve · 21/09/2024 16:53

Private pre prep is honestly like burning money. Absolutely no point to it at all.

shuffleofftobuffalo · 21/09/2024 16:50

I think it's such a long time until secondary that you can't know the school will suit her for that long.

But - what I'd do is to really research the state school. Education is in an increasingly dire state these days and, as hard as the very dedicated staff work, a lot of schools are extremely cash strapped and under resourced for the cohorts of increasingly challenging children they have. This does have an impact on the quality of education for a lot of children. You say it won't do any harm - it really, really can.

Things are going to get worse before they get better. This is why my DD is at an independent school for secondary - we had excellent primary state options but secondaries not so great. Once you've really done your due diligence comparing the resources of the schools you might find you would prefer the private school environment for your DD regardless of the financials.

Lavenderflower · 21/09/2024 16:49

I agree with you OP. That being said the private primary schools are much better than state. I would rather spend money on private primary and state secondary.
The state secondaries are reasonable in my area.

RhaenysRocks · 21/09/2024 16:39

@Thudercatsrule there's more than one kind of problem and Mumsnet is a massive site. If this post is not in your wheelhouse, feel free not to click on it. it's not up to you to decide who's problems are worthy of our attention. Or what constitutes "a problem"

Annnnnb · 21/09/2024 16:37

Medicalstudentandchemtutor · 21/09/2024 16:13

Haha I went to a normal primary and then did the 11+ and I think paying private school fees for primary school is kind of crazy but I don't think they should be banned from applying to Grammar schools later on. Can see where you are coming from though. I also didn't consider that grammar schools were for people that couldn't pay back in the day. Things have changed now

Edited

If you go back even further, ie before 2nd World War, the Grammar schools in my city were fee paying for most with Scholarship places for bright kids whose parents couldn't afford the fees. It was only when free Secondary school for all was introduced by the Labour govt after the war that the Grammar schools became fully part of the state system and free of fees so 'rich but dim' kids could no longer buy themselves a place. Everyone had to pass the 11+ and the results that followed showed the benefit of eradicating the lower ability group. In my city the one private school cannot compete with the GCSE and A Level results of the Grammars, but the facilities especially for Art and Music and Sport are much better than any state school. If I had the money and children who would be also rans at Grammar I would send them to such a school in a heartbeat.

Growlybear83 · 21/09/2024 16:32

Flossyts · 21/09/2024 13:06

Alternative view ….. are there things she might learn from a state school that she might not in private. I’m think from a social perspective.

I really agree with this, and the previous poster who suggested keeping the savings for the cost of university. I'm always surprised how many people just assume that any private school is going to be better than any state school. I went to what was a fairly prestigious private primary school, and was then moved to a state secondary school, mainly because I was so unhappy. There was only one other girl in my year at secondary school who had moved from a private school and we were no more or less advanced than the oiks who had moved from the state sector. The main difference was that the other girls were much more rounded socially, and had normal families who weren't insufferable snobs like my friends' parents at primary school. My daughter went to a truly superb state junior school, and couldn't have got a better education, no matter how much we had laid. She won the maximum scholarships to the three public schools we applied to, but we chose a grammar school for her because we felt that the quality of education, pastoral support, and facilities on offer were much better than anything we saw at the public schools we visited. I actually walked out of the headteacher's speech at one very well known south London girls' school because I couldn't believe the attitude of the head towards children with special needs and disabilities, and that some of the things she said weren't being challenged by other parents. I really didn't want my daughter being educated in that type of environment.

StrugglingGrief · 21/09/2024 16:27

I’m not paying for grades btw, my kids are very bright and did state til 8. It’s the other stuff you can’t explain fully. But for us it’s worth it, grades wise they’d have got them at our local comp. I could and I wouldn’t send them to our local grammar. Bizarrely more elitist and run by tiger parents, speaking to just one gives me a headache.

Zapx · 21/09/2024 16:25

How quickly have you saved the £100k? You say you started saving when she was born so… Let’s assume your DD is currently 4 so roughly £25k a year.

Fees now are £18k. Let’s add £3k for extras. So you’ll have £4k a year to add to your savings pot. Then you say you’re currently paying for nursery. So let’s assume that’s £8k a year based on your OP. So you’ll be able to add £12k to your savings per year instead of £25k for primary. So 7 years of that and your pot will be £184k. (Obviously fee increases etc but you’ll be getting interest on your savings too etc etc)

I mean if you don’t want to send her to private then don’t send her, but it looks to me like you can afford it easily…?

Annnnnb · 21/09/2024 16:20

In the current climate I think it is madness to assume that an private school will still be there in 15 years time. So many private schools have closed or amalgamated in the last decade that you DP could be very disappointed if things change and your child has to move school anyway. I would put her into state for now and see how things are in 3 years time. Putting all eggs in one very insecure basket is not a good idea.

Mabs49 · 21/09/2024 16:17

Munneyworries · 21/09/2024 12:34

@sweeneytoddsrazor yes he wants to be at the same school with no change. That’s surely not a reason to piss money away we don’t have though.

Changing schools can be good for resilience and confidence building. You may also gain a second set of friends.

I'd probably wait until Year 3 or 4 and send her then. Top up with extra reading and maths at home before then.

Check the school has a 7+ entry point.

I'd use the extra money saved to go on nice holidays or hire a French speaking nanny!

fashionqueen0123 · 21/09/2024 16:16

Munneyworries · 21/09/2024 12:25

@cansu yeah the state primary has such a lovely little garden and is in a nice setting I just can’t see how that’s going to impact her at all in any negative way. It’s like he’s fixated on the original plan and won’t budge. It’s my money too that’s been saved for fees though not just his

Imagine what that money could do for her as an adult. A deposit on a house etc
Surely spending it now would be an epic waste.

WandaFishy99 · 21/09/2024 16:14

Smallroomtetris · 21/09/2024 16:11

Because it defeats the purpose of the 11+ and grammar system
Really couldn't give a shit

No, it doesn't. 11+ is open to all. It's not fair to punish a child for a decision his/her parents made. It's vindictive.

(You really should care, it's important.)

Medicalstudentandchemtutor · 21/09/2024 16:13

Smallroomtetris · 21/09/2024 16:05

I don't think children from private primarys should be allowed to sit the 11+

Haha I went to a normal primary and then did the 11+ and I think paying private school fees for primary school is kind of crazy but I don't think they should be banned from applying to Grammar schools later on. Can see where you are coming from though. I also didn't consider that grammar schools were for people that couldn't pay back in the day. Things have changed now

Medicalstudentandchemtutor · 21/09/2024 16:11

Agree with the above and private school is so expensive. Espescially for primary school. Rather than just pay all that money the best way to help your child succeed is encourage study and actively help them yourself, at a younger age at least. Up until the 11+ i did basic workbooks at home and later some actual tuition to make sure i got into grammar school. That was a smart investment long term and now my parents have money saved that I can use for University etc

Smallroomtetris · 21/09/2024 16:11

WandaFishy99 · 21/09/2024 16:10

Why?
Primaries, not primarys, by the way.

Because it defeats the purpose of the 11+ and grammar system
Really couldn't give a shit