Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

ASD child reduced timetable primary school

87 replies

Redwineandcheeseplease01 · 20/09/2024 09:53

My ASD diagnosed son has just started reception at a mainstream primary. Has an EHCP and 1:1 due to impulsivity and lack of danger awareness. Since he started 2 weeks ago he has been on a graduated start, so he spends a couple of hours in school and then I pick him up. The other children are obviously in all day.
just wondering if any other parents of ASD diagnosed children who have also started school in this way would be able to please
advise on how long this approach usually lasts? I have had to leave my job to facilitate this and can’t afford for the household to be
down an income for long!

OP posts:
Ponoka7 · 20/09/2024 11:26

I agree with what's been said. If you aren't getting DLA, apply straight away.

Newsenmum · 20/09/2024 11:25

You can absolutely do full days, but is that best for him?

Newsenmum · 20/09/2024 11:23

I think it depends on the school and what works best for you and your son. my son is on his third week of slowly building up hours. No way would I have put him in all day. But there was me preference for him.

EndlessLight · 20/09/2024 11:23

grumpyoldeyeore · 20/09/2024 11:19

Contact IPSEA or SOS!SEN. It’s not so straightforward below compulsory school age (term after turn 5). You would have argue either EHCP can’t be delivered in part time hours so council is in breach of securing plan or disability discrimination. There’s no legal entitlement to full time education under 5. You can ask council to supplement provision to make it up to full time if EHCP requires this eg by attending an out of school provider or home tutor / therapist if child can’t cope with full time school. You could ask for social care to provide personal assistant to allow you to work (but legal duties to carers are frankly weak). You could put your child back in pre school until they are 5 if you think the school is messing you around and it’s really about resources and then get free childcare hours again but EHCP would need changing. You need to make it clear in writing you don’t agree with the part time timetable continuing and maybe ask for an emergency review to discuss options with social care involvement. You can self refer for a parent carer needs assessment. If the EHCP doesn’t provide for transition or part time then the assumption would be full time but it depends how well worded your plan is as many are vague. Was your child at full time nursery? If so maybe ask council for part time school and part time nursery. But get advice from one of the charities.

Provision under section 19 of the Education Act 1996 doesn’t apply to DC below CSA, but DC can still attend school full-time from the September if that is what the parents choose as per the admissions code. Schools that refuse are acting unlawfully.

EndlessLight · 20/09/2024 11:21

The school could request an early review. Although the LA may not agree to one. The school can then object to being named/say they think they can't meet needs p, but the LA may continue to name them anyway (they often do) because non-wholly independent schools don’t have to agree to being named. If they are named in section I they must admit.

They could try to formally suspend or permanently exclude, but they would need to follow due process and there would need to be actual grounds to do this. OP would also be able to challenge it. And this isn’t something OP should be worried about at this stage.

CrossUniStudent · 20/09/2024 11:20

Combattingthemoaners · 20/09/2024 11:06

It isn’t enforced or unlawful or whatever else people are saying to put blame on a school again. It’s a soft introduction so he doesn’t get overwhelmed, it’s supportive. Just ask for an action plan with dates on how they will phase it out.

It absolutely is if it's for the schools benefit and not the child's.

Part time timetables should also only be used for exceptional circumstances for a limited time (6 weeks).

Parents never have to agree one and one should not be put in place without their consent

countrysidelife2024 · 20/09/2024 11:19

mine was half time for a whole year then he got kept back a year ( so now he is 6 years old in year 1 but goes full time, from xmas we are homeschooling him

Janedoe82 · 20/09/2024 11:19

There are obviously procedures around this but fighting with the school to take a child full time when it isn't the best place for him will achieve very little. I know of several statemented children who have not been allowed to attend the school of their choosing as needs too great.

grumpyoldeyeore · 20/09/2024 11:19

Contact IPSEA or SOS!SEN. It’s not so straightforward below compulsory school age (term after turn 5). You would have argue either EHCP can’t be delivered in part time hours so council is in breach of securing plan or disability discrimination. There’s no legal entitlement to full time education under 5. You can ask council to supplement provision to make it up to full time if EHCP requires this eg by attending an out of school provider or home tutor / therapist if child can’t cope with full time school. You could ask for social care to provide personal assistant to allow you to work (but legal duties to carers are frankly weak). You could put your child back in pre school until they are 5 if you think the school is messing you around and it’s really about resources and then get free childcare hours again but EHCP would need changing. You need to make it clear in writing you don’t agree with the part time timetable continuing and maybe ask for an emergency review to discuss options with social care involvement. You can self refer for a parent carer needs assessment. If the EHCP doesn’t provide for transition or part time then the assumption would be full time but it depends how well worded your plan is as many are vague. Was your child at full time nursery? If so maybe ask council for part time school and part time nursery. But get advice from one of the charities.

LoveSandbanks · 20/09/2024 11:18

Janedoe82 · 20/09/2024 10:37

It really depends on whether he can actually manage a full day- regardless of what the law says. If he goes in, can't cope and causes the rest of the class to be unsettled, you run the risk of the school simply refusing to have him and saying they can't meet his needs. It is a fine balance.

He has an EHCP, they gave already agreed (or been told by the local authority) that they can meet needs. They are funded by the LA to support him but are choosing to use his allocated 1:1 for the benefit of the wider year group while this child’s family is forced to go without a parents wage!

in my (somewhat extensive) experience an email, copying in his caseworker, asking, or telling them, how long this transition can last. It cannot be open ended (which they’d like) and stress that you are losing wages. Caseworkers are much maligned in the ehcp process but are really valuable in insisting that the ehcp is adhered to.

we’d all like to pretend that the welfare of our children comes first but that’s pretty difficult when you’re not able to pay rent or mortgage

CrossUniStudent · 20/09/2024 11:18

They still can't refuse to have him in school. It would be an unlawful exclusion.

Janedoe82 · 20/09/2024 11:15

CrossUniStudent · 20/09/2024 10:54

He's got an EHCP. They don't get to choose 'not to have him'

They absolutely can if they say that they can't meet his needs and he needs to be in specialist provision.

EndlessLight · 20/09/2024 11:10

It is unlawful. Legally it is not the school’s choice. The child can attend full time if the parent wants them to.

Didimum · 20/09/2024 11:08

BeMintBee · 20/09/2024 10:14

They can’t legally enforce a part time timetable so you are more than within your rights to insist on full time. If they can’t meet his needs they need an emergency review of his EHCP and you should consider if this is the right school placement setting for him. Even with an EHCP and 1:1 mainstream isn’t always the right choice for a child.

This.

Combattingthemoaners · 20/09/2024 11:06

It isn’t enforced or unlawful or whatever else people are saying to put blame on a school again. It’s a soft introduction so he doesn’t get overwhelmed, it’s supportive. Just ask for an action plan with dates on how they will phase it out.

EndlessLight · 20/09/2024 11:03

Be careful with SENDIASS. Some are good, but far too many repeat the LA’s unlawful policies.

Being below CSA does not mean the school can force OP to send DS part time. The admissions code makes it clear DC can attend full time from the September and that it is the parent’s choice whether to send part time until CSA or not.

Breakingthecycle60 · 20/09/2024 11:00

As others have said, it is up to you as to whether you agree to this reduced timetable or not. The only thing that I am not sure of is with him being in reception and (I assume?) 4 years old whether this would still apply, as I know that unfortunately some obligations in relation to children with additional needs (such as transport) is only enforceable once they reach compulsory school age. But to answer you questions ‘reintegration timetables’ should not exceed six weeks, plus the school should be reporting information about the hours that he is doing to the local authority (you can ask them for details of what the school has provided the LA).

I would also recommend contacting SENDIAS asap, they often have a wait for advice but are really helpful when you get to see them and once you are on their radar it is a lot quicker to get support.

Bluevelvetsofa · 20/09/2024 10:58

It’s a bit early to say that the school can’t cope, because there’s not enough evidence to show whether that’s the case. He’s only been there for a short time each day and there doesn’t seem to have been a prior or current plan to demonstrate how the funding he gets is being used to support him.

It may be the case that, ultimately, the school can’t meet his needs and that a different setting would be preferable. That isn’t the decision of the school and must be taken when support has been in place and via either an annual review or an emergency annual review.

Bluevelvetsofa · 20/09/2024 10:58

It’s a bit early to say that the school can’t cope, because there’s not enough evidence to show whether that’s the case. He’s only been there for a short time each day and there doesn’t seem to have been a prior or current plan to demonstrate how the funding he gets is being used to support him.

It may be the case that, ultimately, the school can’t meet his needs and that a different setting would be preferable. That isn’t the decision of the school and must be taken when support has been in place and via either an annual review or an emergency annual review.

Katemax82 · 20/09/2024 10:55

My asd son has to finish at 1pm every day. This is because as well as the 1:1 situation he refuses to eat, drink or use the toilet at school. I can't see this changing anytime soon

Beth216 · 20/09/2024 10:54

He is entitled to a full time education, the idea that he can 'cope' for 2 hours and then suddenly can't cope is unrealistic. More likely the school don't want to or can't cope which is not his fault.

They can't just refuse to have him any more because he's too hard work! They will need to show they've tried everything to support him and then look at a school transfer to somewhere more suited if they can't.

I think it would be a good idea to have a meeting with his teacher, the SENCO and the head as this doesn't sound like a suitable school for him if he's only doing 2 hours and all the other children are full time. I think you need to insist that he deserves a full time education and find out what they are going to do to make that happen.

CrossUniStudent · 20/09/2024 10:54

Janedoe82 · 20/09/2024 10:37

It really depends on whether he can actually manage a full day- regardless of what the law says. If he goes in, can't cope and causes the rest of the class to be unsettled, you run the risk of the school simply refusing to have him and saying they can't meet his needs. It is a fine balance.

He's got an EHCP. They don't get to choose 'not to have him'

x2boys · 20/09/2024 10:53

Janedoe82 · 20/09/2024 10:37

It really depends on whether he can actually manage a full day- regardless of what the law says. If he goes in, can't cope and causes the rest of the class to be unsettled, you run the risk of the school simply refusing to have him and saying they can't meet his needs. It is a fine balance.

Ime it's that school can't cope ,not the child
In which case the school need to be looking at a more specialised setting.

Bluevelvetsofa · 20/09/2024 10:49

I agree with @Kitkatfiend31 If his EHCP specifies 1-1 then he should be in school for the time that he is allocated that support. If it’s full time, the school is funded for that and should be able to provide a support plan full time. If it’s less than full time, there should be a plan for when that support is targeted and what the school will do for any time that 1-1 is not specified.

In any case, any child who starts part time should have a plan for increasing to full time over a short period.

What do the relevant sections of the EHCP say OP? Is it a precise document, as it should be, or does it say things like ‘help to’ or ‘support needed for’.

I can’t remember all the sections, but it would be useful to know what is written.

Knowing they have a child coming into Reception with an EHCP, I would have expected the school to have met with you, particularly his class teacher and the SENCo, to plan exactly what they will do to support your son, what will happen if there’s a problem and how they intend to review his progress.

Simply limiting him to two hours a day, with no plan for increasing that, won’t do.

EndlessLight · 20/09/2024 10:48

DS can attend full time now if that is what you want.

The school cannot “simply refuse to have him”.

Or you can choose for DS to attend part-time until he is compulsory school age.