To think we shouldn't habitually lie to children?

I've never lied to my children. They know that father Christmas and the tooth fairy are folk stories and not real. They also know they can trust me because I will always tell them the truth.

I think conflict avoidant must be a buzzword at the moment, it's basically a backlash against the overuse of "gentle" parenting, either a way to either point out where it goes wrong or just straight up bash parents who are trying their best to navigate something very hard.

And yes, there is definitely an issue with being conflict avoidant to the point that you always/only avoid conflict - the whole point of picking your battles isn't to say well let's not have any at all. There are times that you need to be the adult and stand your ground.

But as you say, there should be a balance. It's no fun to constantly be locking horns with a small person who has barely any common sense or reasoning skills, and it just reinforces the idea of butting back IME.

I agree op. I think we shouldn’t habitually lie full stop. Not just with children, in society generally.

There is this class-riddled idea in Britain that lying is equated with being polite. I think integrity and trust are much more important.

I lie to my toddler all the time. He doesn’t have the ability to understand an explanation of why there are more chips but he can’t have them. I’d end up sounding like my mum and say “because I said so” which is probably worse than the white lie.

The older he gets the more I’ll be able to explain but it seems needlessly cruel to try and reason with a young child that isn’t old enough to understand.

I think you are in for a shock OP and will cringe at this post when your toddler hits the threenager then fuck it fours years or you have more than one child. Conflict avoidance will be your number one parenting tool. I lie about lots of things - the ice cream van only plays music when it's empty, the fire alarms on the ceilings are intercoms to Father Christmas, the security guards at the supermarket are really police men on the look out for feral misbehaving kids, our old cat who passed away is in heaven having a grand old time. So what.

Some people suck the life and fun out of everything

A family we knew when our children were all small lied about what meat is. Eg chicken wasn't from those cute chickens at the farm along the road, it was just a silly name people gave it. My robustly vegan son didn't help the lies when aged 5 he told them that sausages were mashed up dead animals

The tooth fairy and Father Christmas are tricky because you don't want to spoil the magic of other children who believe in them.

My DP is very much in your camp. He thinks it’s wrong to lie and whilst I wouldn’t go as far as to say he’d never lie to our kids, he certainly wouldn’t casually reach for a lie to make his life easier or to get the desired result. I can’t say it would be something I would instinctively be quite so absolutist about but intellectually I can’t make the case that he’s wrong so I more-so take his approach. I also think my mum is far to quick to lie to our children to get them to do what she wants and that does feel wrong.

Dd said the other day she knew the ice cream van that went past had ice cream because it was silent
(To be fair she is 19)

I'm not a fan of those kind of lies either. They didn't work on me when I was a child and I didn't lie like that to my children.

The occasional white lie isn't so bad, but relying on them regularly to manage behaviour is very weak parenting and, as you say, conflict avoidant. Children need to learn to cope with being told 'no', and they won't learn to do that if their parents are too scared of a tantrum to actually set some boundaries.

I lied to my kids when they were young. " The ice cream van plays music when run out of ice cream". " The ride on toy is broken" ( those coin operated things. )

Good job momma!!

I said it’s a magical story we share at Christmas time. She asked about children being good/bad and getting/not getting presents and I said that some people tell the story that way but I don’t think any children are bad and that Santa gives to all children. And then I asked her if she believes Santa is real and she said she does.

Maybe it’s what you consider to be a lie. I would say to my DC eating spinach makes their bodies strong. I tell them that mummy has a shower and does some jobs and then goes to bed after they are asleep. I answer any questions about sex and bodies that I’m asked. None of that is untrue, so I actually wouldn’t say you’re lying… obviously I’d give a more detailed and complex answer to an older child. I give the detail that suits their age and stage of development, and don’t usually expand more than this.

And you said???

Man I'm dreading this question. I'm shocking at lying 😅

I totally agree with you, OP. There’s something about lying to manipulate your child’s behaviour that feels uncomfortable to me.

Personally, I would have said you can have more if you’ve finished what’s on your plate.

Unlike PP have said, I don’t go round like one of those reality TV people who says every inane thing that comes into their head… but generally I am truthful and don’t find lying comes easily to me.

Meanwhile, DD (aged 5) asked me the other day if Santa is real…

makes a reasonable point, sometimes it's about not inflaming a situation with a small child whose doesn't have the understanding yet. But on the other hand, they've got to learn "no" or "that's enough" eventually.

I’m not sure your point though, parenting techniques evolve and adapt as children grow and their understanding develops. Most people move to something more “honest” in time. I don’t know a single person who tells their 17 year old that if they eat all their spinach they will be strong like popeye or that a baby sibling happens when a mummy and daddy love each other very much.

You can call it lying but the reality is parenting is knowing what is an age appropriate method and when, and matching this to your child’s maturity level.

My preschooler thinks I go to bed after I close her door at 7pm, saying that conflict resolution needs to be taught and tucking her in while telling her I’m going to stay up late, stuff my face with chocolate and watch tv all night is hardly a beneficial exercise.

Of course not! But telling silly lies that they will work out is kind if stupid eg “can’t go to the park, it’s closed” or “we have to go because it’s X time” (it isn’t). My kid’s autistic and he questions is and works out there is lying. There’s normally a reason and tbh he should know.

It’s fine to tell a child there are no more chips left. Sometimes the moment doesn’t lend itself to an explanation of why we shouldn’t eat too many chips.

You have other issues with your Mum and it’s reflecting on everything you see her do.

Oh I'm all in favour of the odd white lie. Saves pointless argument!

I've never lied to my 3yo. I find it strange. I am teaching him that it is okay to lie.

I think you're trying to find trouble where there is none.

No kid that was told as a toddler "there's no more chips" is going to have issues with trust in the future, and quite frankly, I think you're ridiculous to say so. You're putting a level of understanding on a child who, quite frankly, literally knows fuck all at this stage of life.

Your mum telling little lies all the time is annoying AF, I had a boyfriend who used to do that and it drove me insane.

But it's not the same as telling a fib to a toddler.