Family member awarded enhanced pip - AIBU?

Hello. May I ask you something? My mum is 73 and on PIP but only has lower rate mobility (8 points). Her mobility has reduced terribly, with her only managing a few yards before needing to sit, due to arthritis.

Can she apply for higher rate mobility? I called the PIP office and they said it’s just due to her age so she wouldn’t be able to apply.

That post wasn't me but how interesting! I often spent hours carefully reviewing medical evidence, some claimants had more than 50 pieces of evidence. The PIP assessments are also audited and the auditors can override your recommendations based on the evidence provided. So I don't think OP has been given the clearest picture, you simply would not be able to get the enhanced rate based on fabrications.

That reminds me...if anyone reading this thread is currently in the the throes of a PIP application this is a very useful thread.

(Plantparent I don't know if the OP of the thread below was you, but if it was, thank you. Your thread really helped me and my DH).

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2764894--to-give-people-assistance-with-claiming-PIP

This. So many people not understanding that the claimant not supplying the medical evidence themselves doesn’t mean that it won’t be sought from the sources they’ve named on the form. Not sure if it’s still the case, but it used to be that if you didn’t supply supporting medical evidence you increased your chances of having to undergo a face to face assessment - possibly now a telephone or video call, and also having to rely solely on an assessors’ report to decide the claim, when possibly that report may have been completed without all the relevant facts.

You have to remember that some people will tell people things because they know they’re a nosey sod and it winds them up. I had a neighbour years bsck who is entitled to it 100%, but sarcastically told a known local busy body that it was all false and she was loving it. Lo and behold, a few weeks later she got a letter saying that she’d been reported and there would be an investigation. She knew she was doing nothing wrong, but laughed hysterically that this woman is such a bitter and envious nosey bugger 🤣 of course nothing came of it. Sometimes it’s just people trying to annoy others because they know they can’t stand others getting things and they will froth 😂

I was a PIP assessor a while back and you definitely need medical evidence to back up claims of pain/mobility etc. It wouldn't be awarded at the enhanced rate simply on the claimant's word.

This. Amazing isn’t it ? So many people can spot a fraudster despite not having a clue as to how PiP rules are applied or interpreted.

This in itself isn’t an indication of a false claim. It depends on what grounds they are claiming. I haven’t read this particular post so I don’t know what level of benefit this person is claiming but it’s absolutely possible to be able to walk in this manner and still qualify for even the advanced rate of PIP.

For all activities, including mobility, the assessor has to consider whether the applicant can complete it safely, reliably, repeatedly and in a timely manner.

Safely means without exacerbating their condition or causing injury to anyone else. Reliably means to an acceptable standard. Repeatedly means as often as necessary throughout the day without having a knock on effect on other activities assessed, and in a timely manner means in less than twice the time it takes a non disabled person to complete the same activity. The assessor has to consider how many times the claimant has to stop and rest, and for how long, and they also have to consider any pain or breathlessness the claimant experiences as a result of doing the activity, as well as any pain or other medication necessary in order to complete the activity.

I wouldn’t know this level of detail about any of even my closest friends or family.

Unless you are qualified to assess whether all of these things apply, and you know what level of benefit has been awarded and for what reason, you have absolutely no way of determining whether that claim is fraudulent or not and you run the risk of reporting someone and triggering a review of their benefit when in fact, they haven’t done anything wrong. There’s a reason benefit assessors are healthcare professionals. There’s also a reason why they are trained and fully versed in PiP rules and how they are applied and interpreted. Unless you are trained to the same standard, you really aren’t qualified to judge.

It isn’t definitely false - you don’t know on what basis she’s been awarded it on, and neither does anyone else apart from the claimant. This bloody thread is so infuriating!

If this is true, the claim is definitely false and fraudulent I'm afraid. You don't say what you want to do about it though?

Because you’re not awarded PIP with no evidence. If you don’t send in medical or other evidence yourself, that’s fine. But on the application form you consent to the DWP contacting any of the health professionals you name on the form as being involved with your care. You won’t necessarily be advised that they’ve contacted them as you’ve already given permission for that to happen.

In addition, there is always an assessors’ report. The DWP case manager who makes the benefit decision isn’t medically trained and relies on an interpretation of the information contained in the application form and from other supporting evidence - this is what the assessor provides in their report. It can be done on the information in the application form if there’s enough detail to get a fair idea of the level of functional impairment. But mostly the assessor will either contact the professionals named on the application form, or will contact the claimant directly by phone or video call, or by making an appointment for a face to face assessment where necessary. It’s always preferable to supply your own evidence where possible, otherwise you’re relying on the assessors’ report alone.

My DS also gave details of the medical professionals involved in his care. And as well as his stack of evidence, several of them were contacted. It's preetty safe to assume that if you don't provide evidence but contact details that your contacts are likely to be contacted - unless your condition is manifestly so serious and unlikely to resolve that this isn't deemed necessary.

My DS got a 10 year award, high rate for both components.

Except the poster says they gave the contact details of relevant medical professionals

I suppose now someone's going to say the medical professionals aren't contacted. One of DH's cousins receives a disability benefit. I don't know if it's PIP or something else, because it's his private health and financial information. I do know though (and only because he once discussed a possible house move and was worried about losing his current doctors who understood his condition) that his doctors were contacted when he made a claim.

Thank you - she did I the end. I really struggled with the benefits system - people on the ground were lovely and helpful, anyone in a call center, not so much. I am speaking as someone who can look up statutory guidance and acts of parliament.

She was blind and was automatically entitled to the top mobility rate, and yet she still had to fill in a 38 page form when “is she blind?” could have skipped every other question. In many cases this system is actively cruel and designed to discourage people from claiming.

@Rosscameasdoody a fantastic response 👏🏻 bravo.

Those who object to the Motability Scheme, do you also object to Family Fund?

@Orangecrocs , the OP, posted four times on this thread yesterday afternoon and then scarpered. No other posts under that name on MN.

Something to ponder on.

I am sorry about your daughter. I hope she was awarded the right rate in the end

Benefit fraud is very rare. Benefits not claimed or illegally denied are much, much more common.

It’s weird that most of the threads are “I know someone who is committing benefit fraud” from brand new posters who don’t seem to know how benefits work.

As someone whose daughter was confined to bed who didn’t get the top rate straight off, I know what I’m talking about.

@SurpriseTwinPregnancy ”In reality, plenty of people are exaggerating symptoms, just like your family member.” do you have any evidence other than vibes or anecdotes? Your vibes versus actual research?

@Hoardasauruskaren You seem to think benefit claimants are worth less than tax payers which is just a horrible attitude.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Thank you!

Becoming disabled wasn't a choice and is not a choice for any disabled person. The sooner these red-hot-Tory posters understood this.

You do realise benefit claimants are just people the same as the rest of us ? With the same choice to use their card for payments, DDs for bills, contactless or withdraw cash from ATMs ? You will probably find many younger claimants use Apple Pay etc & rarely handle cash! Just the same as most of the younger generation!

You talk as if they are all handed a wad of cash! This audit sustem you want would be a huge invasion of privacy and would cost a lot to administer! I get what you are saying about those with criminal intent prefer cash as no paper trail to incriminate them but treating benefit claimants like criminals is not the way to deal with that! You seem to think benefit claimants are worth less than tax payers which is just a horrible attitude.

Thanks for posting again. For some reason other posters on here seem to be in total disbelief that you were awarded PIP with no evidence.

It was me who posted about no medical ev finance. I did not send them any medical evidence. Only the contact details of relevant medical professionals.

I haven’t offended anyone. I was referring to myself as wheelchair bound - no-one else. And it might interest you to know that as soon as I posted I knew you’d pick up on it. I’m mid sixties, used the term day in and day out, never offended anyone. Know why ? Because that’s how they referred to themselves. Plus I was dealing with people whose problems were so monumental that their last concern was whether they were offended by being described as such. I do realise that this term has been consigned to the bin - probably rightly so and ‘permanent wheelchair user’ is probably a better term. I’ll try to remember that when referring to other people, but if it’s OK with you I’ll refer to myself in the vernacular with which I”m most familiar. Old habits die hard.

I am not sure why you have quoted me to explain this? If you read my posts you will see I have said learning difficulties and learning disabilities are not the same thing.

The term, "Wheelchair bound" has been an offensive, ableist term for decades.

I'm surprised you'd want to upset and offend disabled people, then call them, "woke", considering you know sooo many of them.

I'm really not.