Page 6 | Family member awarded enhanced pip - AIBU?

Orangecrocs · 2024-09-19T14:42:24+00:00

My family member has just been awarded enhanced pip in both living and mobility components. Shes told me that she’s twisted the truth during the assessment and told the assessor that she has lots of pain and can’t really walk at all, but she walks all the time as I see her out and about - we live in a hilly area. I know people who are in a wheelchair and struggle to get enhanced rate - so I really don’t understand how she’s managed this. I know people will say mind your own business but she’s told me she’s actually lied to them.

Hoardasauruskaren · 21/09/2024 10:06

WalkingonWheels · 20/09/2024 06:18

What's rubbish about the Motability scheme is that it's one or the other. You can have a WAV, or you can have a wheelchair. Not both. If I chose a wheelchair, I can't go anywhere. If I chose a WAV, I can't get to it.

On top of that, you have to pay a deposit for the vehicle too, which can be thousands for a WAV and you also have to pay for any adaptations. Ramp, hoist etc. I had to save for seven years for a deposit on my WAV. While having to buy a powerchair on a credit card which is still not paid off.

Perhaps if there wasn't so much PIP fraud, there'd be more money for the things that disabled people actually need.

(And yes, there is PIP fraud. I mentioned my colleague earlier, who is proud of fraudulently claiming PIP. I know at least seven people have reported her to the DWP, over the last five years at least. Nothing has been done, despite SO much evidence that she is fraudulent being available. The fraud levels are so low because they're not actually bothering to investigate.)

My DH has a power chair provided by the NHS through his OT. Is that not a possibility for you ? We are in Scotland, no idea how it works elsewhere. It makes no sense that you can’t get a car & a power chair with your PIP!

Rosscameasdoody · 21/09/2024 09:56

TigerRag · 21/09/2024 08:53

I was awarded 0 points for mobility. Part of the argument was that I can use public transport. I've lost count of the amount of buses I've flagged down and the bus isn't in service. (I can see about 5-10 metres)

Got it looked at again and was awarded 12 points because I need help crossing roads. (I can't hear where sound comes from nor can I see that well) But apparently because I could flag down a bus meant I had no problems.

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Sorry, I should have been a bit more specific. The physical ‘moving around’ descriptors for PIP don’t consider the ability to use public transport, or the provision of suitable local routes.

For a sensory disability you would have been assessed under the ‘planning and following’ a journey category. As far as I remember the only descriptor in which the ability to use public transport is considered is for 1D ‘cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid’ would appear to be where you . Assessors are given clear guidance that to be considered able to satisfy this descriptor, the claimant must be able to use public transport - the assessment of which focuses on ability, not choice. This is because the ability to use public transport is, by nature, a requirement of the activity.

Miley1967 · 21/09/2024 09:55

Intheoldendays · 21/09/2024 09:52

She would be best applying for attendance allowance. This is the one for those over retirement age

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Not if she already has a PIP award with a mobility award !

Intheoldendays · 21/09/2024 09:52

Rosscameasdoody · 21/09/2024 09:16

@GuPuddingRamekinHoarder PIP is a working age benefit and in most cases you can’t make a new claim for PIP after age 66. To still be claiming PiP after age 66, the most likely reason is your mum had an existing ongoing PIP claim at the time she reached that age, so it would continue for as long as she is eligible.

There are different rules around the PIP mobility component for those with an ongoing claim after age 66. If you weren’t in receipt of the mobility component before age 66 you can’t claim it after age 66. Similarly, if you were only entitled to the standard rate of mobility before age 66 then you can’t claim the enhanced rate after age 66 - even if your condition warrants it.

The PIP adviser you spoke to was correct. There is a disability benefit called attendance allowance which most people claim if they have a new disability after age 66. This benefit doesn’t include a mobility component because any new mobility issues after age 66 are considered age related, so not supported.

For general information. You can make a new claim for PIP after age 66 if your last PIP claim ended within the previous year, but you can only claim for a condition that formed part of your last PIP claim or if it’s related to that condition. For example, if your last claim was for diabetes and your diabetes has now made it harder for you to see, you can now claim PIP for your diabetes and your sight loss. And the same mobility rules would apply. You can’t make a new claim for any part of the mobility component unless you were claiming it as part of the previous claim.

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She would be best applying for attendance allowance. This is the one for those over retirement age

WalkingonWheels · 21/09/2024 09:51

PIP assessors are the lowest of the low.

Crankyracoon · 21/09/2024 09:51

Rosscameasdoody · 20/09/2024 20:31

Because you’re not awarded PIP with no evidence. If you don’t send in medical or other evidence yourself, that’s fine. But on the application form you consent to the DWP contacting any of the health professionals you name on the form as being involved with your care. You won’t necessarily be advised that they’ve contacted them as you’ve already given permission for that to happen.

In addition, there is always an assessors’ report. The DWP case manager who makes the benefit decision isn’t medically trained and relies on an interpretation of the information contained in the application form and from other supporting evidence - this is what the assessor provides in their report. It can be done on the information in the application form if there’s enough detail to get a fair idea of the level of functional impairment. But mostly the assessor will either contact the professionals named on the application form, or will contact the claimant directly by phone or video call, or by making an appointment for a face to face assessment where necessary. It’s always preferable to supply your own evidence where possible, otherwise you’re relying on the assessors’ report alone.

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But some people are awarded without providing evidence of the effect it's having on their day to day lives. A lot of the time evidence from GPs is just a list of diagnoses and PIP is about the diagnoses, you can have a diagnosis and not be effected severely enough to meet the descriptors for PIP. That may not be what happened here but it does happen.

Rosscameasdoody · 21/09/2024 09:16

GuPuddingRamekinHoarder · 20/09/2024 21:39

Hello. May I ask you something? My mum is 73 and on PIP but only has lower rate mobility (8 points). Her mobility has reduced terribly, with her only managing a few yards before needing to sit, due to arthritis.

Can she apply for higher rate mobility? I called the PIP office and they said it’s just due to her age so she wouldn’t be able to apply.

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@GuPuddingRamekinHoarder PIP is a working age benefit and in most cases you can’t make a new claim for PIP after age 66. To still be claiming PiP after age 66, the most likely reason is your mum had an existing ongoing PIP claim at the time she reached that age, so it would continue for as long as she is eligible.

There are different rules around the PIP mobility component for those with an ongoing claim after age 66. If you weren’t in receipt of the mobility component before age 66 you can’t claim it after age 66. Similarly, if you were only entitled to the standard rate of mobility before age 66 then you can’t claim the enhanced rate after age 66 - even if your condition warrants it.

The PIP adviser you spoke to was correct. There is a disability benefit called attendance allowance which most people claim if they have a new disability after age 66. This benefit doesn’t include a mobility component because any new mobility issues after age 66 are considered age related, so not supported.

For general information. You can make a new claim for PIP after age 66 if your last PIP claim ended within the previous year, but you can only claim for a condition that formed part of your last PIP claim or if it’s related to that condition. For example, if your last claim was for diabetes and your diabetes has now made it harder for you to see, you can now claim PIP for your diabetes and your sight loss. And the same mobility rules would apply. You can’t make a new claim for any part of the mobility component unless you were claiming it as part of the previous claim.

TigerRag · 21/09/2024 08:53

Rosscameasdoody · 20/09/2024 08:58

I did highlight the fact that l was talking specifically about the physical assessment for PIP mobility. There are different eligibility criteria for mental health and cognitive disorders, and both the standard and enhanced rates can be awarded on a combination of the two - and needing to be accompanied is considered for physical disabilities too.

It should be noted that an award of either the standard or enhanced rate of PIP mobility with at least 8 points scored from the moving around descriptors will qualify the claimant automatically for a blue badge. However, automatic entitlement to a blue badge is only possible solely on mental health/cognitive grounds by scoring 10 points from descriptor E in the Planning and following a journey category. People who do not satisfy these conditions may qualify for a blue badge under their Local Authority’s own rules, but eligibility is not automatic by way of a PIP award.

As with all the descriptors there is the consideration of the ability to mobilise safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly (as often as is reasonably required throughout the day) and in a reasonable time period - no more than twice as long as a person without the condition.

You are incorrect about the consideration of the ability to use public transport or not. This is not a factor in deciding PIP mobility, and neither is access to or reliability of public transport. And only those people who receive the enhanced rate of mobility component are eligible to join the motability scheme - either solely via the moving around or planning and following a journey descriptors , or a combination of the two.

And l’m not sure what you mean by ‘Motability elements are awarded to offset extra costs associated with travelling with a disability not to buy a car because you cant walk far.’ Firstly there is no ‘motability element’ to PIP. Claimants in receipt of the enhanced rate of PIP mobility are free to choose how they spend it, and very often a car is the most convenient and economical way for them to get around, regardless of whether their condition is one of mental or physical health - so having limited mobility absolutely can be a factor. And it’s not possible to buy a car on the motability scheme - vehicles are leased for a period of three, or in some circumstances five years and have to be handed back at the end of the lease period, and a new lease taken out if you want to stay mobile.

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I was awarded 0 points for mobility. Part of the argument was that I can use public transport. I've lost count of the amount of buses I've flagged down and the bus isn't in service. (I can see about 5-10 metres)

Got it looked at again and was awarded 12 points because I need help crossing roads. (I can't hear where sound comes from nor can I see that well) But apparently because I could flag down a bus meant I had no problems.

Rosscameasdoody · 21/09/2024 08:48

WalkingonWheels · 20/09/2024 23:35

That's rather dramatic.

It’s really not. I feel the same way having spent so long sorting people claims out. The hard reality is that when someone is reported for suspected benefit fraud it’s not just one benefit that’s stopped, it has a knock on effect on any other benefits they claim. And once benefit has been stopped it is not reinstated until the investigation is complete. Even then it takes time for benefit payments to restart. It causes real hardship and benefit advisers see this every day.

PIP assessors are healthcare professionals. They know how PIP rules should be interpreted and applied. And yet some posters here think (despite displaying breathtaking ignorance of what PIP is and what it’s for) they’re more qualified to decide. All this poster is saying is think before you report, because in most cases what you see, is most definitely not all there is.

Rosscameasdoody · 21/09/2024 08:29

DadJoke · 21/09/2024 00:23

No. PIP is not means tested.

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Lots of posters not understanding this, and also that it has nothing to do with being out of work. And we’re talking about a disability benefit here, which supports many with very severe conditions, many caused by birth defects. These people are among the long term unemployed/sick and some may never have worked due to disability. To talk about capital reserves in this context demonstrates a lack of understanding, not only of how disability benefits work, but, the circumstances of many who claim them.

Rosscameasdoody · 21/09/2024 08:21

DadJoke · 21/09/2024 00:13

You’ll be pleased to hear that your second-hand tale of fraud, even if true, is vanishingly rare.

Someone who has clearly managed to bribe NHS consultants and trick the assessors every year is quite the master criminal.

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It’s absolute nonsense, as evidenced by the post from an actual assessor upthread. I was a disability benefits adviser/outreach worker for over 15 years and can attest to the fact that even those with severe and self evident disabilities had difficulty in securing the correct rate of benefit, and attended many appeal tribunals. It’s one of the hardest benefits to claim and has to be supported with robust medical evidence. DWP has actually been criticised, both for the dreadful quality of the award decision making, and the fact that they have forced clearly disabled claimants to expensive tribunal at the expense of the tax payer, despite it being clear that they were entitled to benefit. So I really don’t believe some of the stories posters have come up with to prove you can pull the wool over the assessors’ eyes. It’s actually quite insulting to the assessor. If you could just lie to the assessor and secure an award with no supporting evidence, then the tribunal service wouldn’t be necessary as everyone would be getting the benefit rate they’re entitled to. Which is not the case.

DadJoke · 21/09/2024 00:23

DejaTu · 20/09/2024 17:28

Question.

So the majority of claimants previously had zero capital reserves? Is that what you are implying? If so, I find that very difficult to believe.

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No. PIP is not means tested.

DadJoke · 21/09/2024 00:13

Garlicandchilli · 20/09/2024 15:57

To add to my post above, the whole family know exactly how to play the system.

You’ll be pleased to hear that your second-hand tale of fraud, even if true, is vanishingly rare.

Someone who has clearly managed to bribe NHS consultants and trick the assessors every year is quite the master criminal.

Garlicandchilli · 21/09/2024 00:09

Windchimesandsong · 20/09/2024 16:41

My goodness! So it definitely sounds like she might be too unwell to work. I'm assuming mental health and/or alcohol addiction issues.

A good example of failing, underfunded and/or badly managed/ineffective mental health services, social services, and substance issues services.

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I know this woman well, very well. She’s completely playing the system, I can assure you of that. The primary reason for her PIP is Fibromyalgia, not alcoholism. She loves a drink and a day dancing in the pub, she’s not anxious or ill. She’s just learned all the right things to say and has a brass neck.

Shesnotelectric · 21/09/2024 00:03

Rosscameasdoody · 20/09/2024 08:58

I did highlight the fact that l was talking specifically about the physical assessment for PIP mobility. There are different eligibility criteria for mental health and cognitive disorders, and both the standard and enhanced rates can be awarded on a combination of the two - and needing to be accompanied is considered for physical disabilities too.

It should be noted that an award of either the standard or enhanced rate of PIP mobility with at least 8 points scored from the moving around descriptors will qualify the claimant automatically for a blue badge. However, automatic entitlement to a blue badge is only possible solely on mental health/cognitive grounds by scoring 10 points from descriptor E in the Planning and following a journey category. People who do not satisfy these conditions may qualify for a blue badge under their Local Authority’s own rules, but eligibility is not automatic by way of a PIP award.

As with all the descriptors there is the consideration of the ability to mobilise safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly (as often as is reasonably required throughout the day) and in a reasonable time period - no more than twice as long as a person without the condition.

You are incorrect about the consideration of the ability to use public transport or not. This is not a factor in deciding PIP mobility, and neither is access to or reliability of public transport. And only those people who receive the enhanced rate of mobility component are eligible to join the motability scheme - either solely via the moving around or planning and following a journey descriptors , or a combination of the two.

And l’m not sure what you mean by ‘Motability elements are awarded to offset extra costs associated with travelling with a disability not to buy a car because you cant walk far.’ Firstly there is no ‘motability element’ to PIP. Claimants in receipt of the enhanced rate of PIP mobility are free to choose how they spend it, and very often a car is the most convenient and economical way for them to get around, regardless of whether their condition is one of mental or physical health - so having limited mobility absolutely can be a factor. And it’s not possible to buy a car on the motability scheme - vehicles are leased for a period of three, or in some circumstances five years and have to be handed back at the end of the lease period, and a new lease taken out if you want to stay mobile.

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‘You are incorrect about the consideration of the ability to use public transport or not. This is not a factor in deciding PIP mobility, and neither is access to or reliability of public transport. And only those people who receive the enhanced rate of mobility component are eligible to join the motability scheme - either solely via the moving around or planning and following a journey descriptors , or a combination of the two.’
This was what I was trying to get at but couldn’t think how to describe it properly.

The part about the mobility car was a bitnof a rant in reference from ignorant comments Ive heard over the years about mobility claimants. (It wasnt directly to you sorry if it came across that way!)
’They are just doing it for free car they can walk perfectly fine’ blah blah.
It grates on me the lack of understanding of whats involved in a PIP/mobility claim the
thinking that because someone can walk they are automatically assumed to be committing fraud😢

Toastandbutterand · 20/09/2024 23:42

It was just hard today, I will log off and have a glass of wine and watch netflix.

Sorry guys. Let's not report people unless they're doing the river dance in front 5000 eh?!

Toastandbutterand · 20/09/2024 23:38

Sorry, Ive had a really hard day at work sorting out people's benefit claims that have been stopped and I'm just so cross.

You have no idea what's going on in someone's life, why make it harder?!

And your taxes are used to pay me to sort it out!

It defies all logic

WalkingonWheels · 20/09/2024 23:35

That's rather dramatic.

Toastandbutterand · 20/09/2024 23:29

What I cannot ot understand.

Regardless of compassion.

Regardless of the fact people on benefits are decidedly, definitely worse off.

Regardless of the fact it has NOTHING to do with you.

You've sat at home and stewed and thought, do you know what? This person shouldn't be getting disability payments. You have absolutely no idea of this person's mental state. You're not sympathetic, so they're hardly likely to be honest to you. But you've decided you're right.

You go ahead and report them. Every payment they have is stopped during the investigation. Because that's what happens.

Do you actually think they won't know it was you? Do you actually think they're well enough that they won't blame you and target you? You've ruined their life! They'll at the very least ask for help.

Because if I found out someone had deliberately done this to me, I wouldn't be sat here writing a Mumsnet thread about it. I would be going batshit on their arse. That person now has nothing because of you. who knows how they'd react?!

Which rather suggests they might be quite ill doesn't it?!

I mean, you're all supposed to quite clever.
Why piss off people who have nothing to lose.

YOYOK · 20/09/2024 22:54

Julen7 · 20/09/2024 19:38

Thanks for posting again. For some reason other posters on here seem to be in total disbelief that you were awarded PIP with no evidence.

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You’re not reading it properly. If you choose not to supply your own medical evidence, you are left at the mercy of contact being made by the DWP. As a professional, I have received correspondence from the DWP asking for information on individuals.

YOYOK · 20/09/2024 22:51

Hoardasauruskaren · 20/09/2024 19:38

You do realise benefit claimants are just people the same as the rest of us ? With the same choice to use their card for payments, DDs for bills, contactless or withdraw cash from ATMs ? You will probably find many younger claimants use Apple Pay etc & rarely handle cash! Just the same as most of the younger generation!

You talk as if they are all handed a wad of cash! This audit sustem you want would be a huge invasion of privacy and would cost a lot to administer! I get what you are saying about those with criminal intent prefer cash as no paper trail to incriminate them but treating benefit claimants like criminals is not the way to deal with that! You seem to think benefit claimants are worth less than tax payers which is just a horrible attitude.

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I was being sarcastic to a very unpleasant poster. You could not be more wrong about my intentions. I was trying to highlight what you’ve said. We should never ever treat benefit claiming people as anything other than a fellow human.

Miley1967 · 20/09/2024 21:53

PandoraSox · 20/09/2024 21:50

I found this on the MS society website.

*If you're already claiming PIP and are over State Pension age, the government will contact you to say you no longer need to be reassessed. They'll also tell you when your light touch review will be.

If your needs change you can still ask for a reassessment by contacting the DWP*

@Rosscameasdoody can you advise?

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Daily living can go up past state pension age but mobility cannot be increased or added.

PandoraSox · 20/09/2024 21:50

Miley1967 · 20/09/2024 21:47

The mobility rate of PIP cannot go up once someone is past state pension age. People who develop mobility issues once they have turned state pension age cannot claim a mobility component at all so she is better off than many.

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I found this on the MS society website.

*If you're already claiming PIP and are over State Pension age, the government will contact you to say you no longer need to be reassessed. They'll also tell you when your light touch review will be.

If your needs change you can still ask for a reassessment by contacting the DWP*

@Rosscameasdoody can you advise?

GuPuddingRamekinHoarder · 20/09/2024 21:49

Miley1967 · 20/09/2024 21:47

The mobility rate of PIP cannot go up once someone is past state pension age. People who develop mobility issues once they have turned state pension age cannot claim a mobility component at all so she is better off than many.

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Thank you.

Miley1967 · 20/09/2024 21:47

GuPuddingRamekinHoarder · 20/09/2024 21:39

Hello. May I ask you something? My mum is 73 and on PIP but only has lower rate mobility (8 points). Her mobility has reduced terribly, with her only managing a few yards before needing to sit, due to arthritis.

Can she apply for higher rate mobility? I called the PIP office and they said it’s just due to her age so she wouldn’t be able to apply.

Show quote history

The mobility rate of PIP cannot go up once someone is past state pension age. People who develop mobility issues once they have turned state pension age cannot claim a mobility component at all so she is better off than many.