Family member awarded enhanced pip - AIBU?

And how much would it cost to have ppl checking all the accounts & receipts, making sure claimants don’t waste money on a bar of chocolate or a takeaway? That’s before you even think about the human side of it! What a horrible comment!

People can, if they want to waste their time, apply for a job without meeting any of the job requirements - experience or skills needed. Just being able to apply for something doesn't mean the person will get what they applied for. Just means someone's filled in a form and likely wasted their time. The poster you're replying to said they had to send detailed medical history to be given PIP.

@Ihopeithinkiknow I'm so sorry you feel ashamed. It's awful there's stigma and discrimination towards benefits in general, and separately illness and disability Nobody chooses to be ill or disabled. You deserve the help and support.

I'm sure a minority of people do lie. How many though is another question. It's not much money at all from what people have said on this thread of the amount given.

Can't be that many people who put themselves through the stress and degrading process, every few years, when not genuinely eligible so risking getting into trouble if found out? Especially as there's so much stigma by society around being on benefits.

Some people commit crimes. All sorts of crimes. And it's very possible that the minority of benefit fraudsters would just commit a different crime if they weren't doing that one.

The majority of genuine claimants shouldn't and mustn't suffer just because of a minority of people who might not be.

Also as I said, re the economic implications. There's the flip side. People who aren't claiming when they should be, are very much eligible, and in need of the help. From what I recall official figures suggest there's more in this group than the former.

But that’s it…..that’s exactly how pip is set up at the moment….you can apply without a shred of medical evidence ( although labour wanting to change this) …..im not saying you will get it…..but people do do this…..people who don’t have a diagnosis.,,,,I have known people with mental health issues send in a mood diary and some letters from family and friends with explanations about how the persons mental health impacts on their day to day life…..and that’s it, nothing else.

I’m not saying it’s easy….I’m saying the way the system is currently set up ….no one ‘has’ to provide medical evidence …….it is your choice to……of course it is going to be in your favour…..but some people who apply have no medical evidence as they have no diagnosis as such……especially with mental health…..therefore any evidence they provide is not ‘medical’ …..it may be their diary…..or a letter from a family member telling about the impact of a persons condition on their day to day life.

Why do some posters find it so hard to believe that people do lie and exaggerate to get PIP and they also have no problem bragging about it to their friends and relatives. The people who genuinely do need it tend to downplay how shit everything is because nobody wants to tell someone that they can't walk to the bathroom and end up sitting in their own shit and piss do they. I know someone who can get about just fine but told the assessor that they can't and it's also what they tell their doctor and consultant and it's not hearsay because i was sat there at the actual assessment (done by phone) what am I meant to do? Report them? How can I prove that they are lying when their own doctor and consultants can back up their claim. I'm not bashing anyone on benefits because I'm on them myself and it's not something I brag about because I'm ashamed and I have a tendency to downplay stuff too. In my experience PIP is not hard to get if you know what you are doing and it's not as strict as some posters are making out. Maybe it depends on the area though because as much as some posters are saying "it's bollocks it's not as easy as that" I'm sat here saying "it's not bollocks it is easy from what I have seen" or maybe I just know a lot of people with no morals that have no shame lol

As an advice team we have a number of clients who we know to be claiming fraudulently by either not reporting changes, or for example by living with a partner and not reporting changes ( still claiming sdp etc). We have been told that all we can do is encourage clients to do the correct thing, put it in writing, document it in their case notes etc. We are not allowed to report benefit fraud. It is a very difficult job to do at times, on one hand very rewarding helping people to claim what they are entitled to but also very frustrating seeing a lot of other things that go on, people being open about knocking ten thousand pounds off the figures they have given to the local authority for savings etc when paying for care etc and just having to try an ignore. There are a lot of dishonest people out there and some people seem unable to see it. I do understand people's frustration at the system but fraud is not the way to go !

They will have asked all the specialists involved . You have to put names, addresses and contact numbers on the application.

Did you not realise that?

It’s not means tested though and you can be working on PIP so you could do both! Or you could also claim ESA.

@Bornnotbourne I'm a nurse , I don't do any of that. I'm office based in a hospital.

I'd report anyone who I knew to be doing this, or who admitted it. Scumbags.

A single person on LCWRA gets £809pm. If they were on the highest rates of both PIP components, then that is a further £732pm. That is still less than someone on full time NMW

Plus, people on NMW get a UC top up. People solely on benefits don't. It literally does pay to work.

That person is taking a foolish risk then. If she gets caught she'll be in trouble, and as she's seemingly being open about what she's doing, she's increasing the likelihood of getting caught.

Also isn't it the case that if you know a client is committing fraud you're obliged to report it? Otherwise aren't you kind of an accessory to the crime?

Separately, there's the flip side of benefit fraud, if looking at it from a purely economic point of view. For every person who possibly might be "playing the system", and I question how many really are (rather than genuinely having issues but feeling too ashamed to tell people), there's quite a lot of people who should be claiming who aren't.

These people struggle - financially and practically, but feel too scared or ashamed to apply. That's something that's known and has been noted in official figures/studies.

And the problem then becomes one of fraud if that person fails to report the change when they are formally reassessed.

This is because PIP is based on the medical model, rather than the social model of disability. DLA was based on the social model and the questions were centred around what you would be able to do with an award of DLA and how that award would improve your life. You can thank the Tories for PIP - the medical model focuses on what the claimant can’t do and makes the benefit much harder to claim.

The mobility component of PIP for physical disability absolutely is based mainly on how far you can walk. You are assessed on the distance you can walk safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly and within a reasonable time frame as per descriptors. It’s also possible to secure an award of PIP solely on mental health problems, or a mixture of the two, but this is subject to certain restrictions.

Whoever told you that does not know all about the mobility element then, I take it.

Yes of course. Uc with LCWRA and PIP can be a similar figure than a full time nmw job.

So a very low income. Hard to survived on, especially with a disability or health issues because being ill or disabled is often expensive. Not to mention if they're private renting usually only able to get substandard "slumlord" properties on benefits, and if mortgaged I don't think there's any housing costs help for people on benefits?

And disability benefit money is obtained by what sounds like a very stressful and degrading process, of giving strangers (those who assess claims) detailed personal information. I understand too that this is a process repeated every few years for many people.

Also many people on full-time nmw jobs get extra UC money on top of their wages.

Our nurse manager are required to work on wards alongside the nursing team. I’m not sure why you’re so unwilling to accept this. They are featured in our trust’s newsletter. It apparently allows insight into our working lives. .

I’m not surprised you became disillusioned!

Glad I'm not the only one working in this field who is completely disillusioned. Most of my colleagues feel the same way though to be honest. You sum it up well. I have a client at the moment who was awarded enhanced rates whilst very unwell and refuses to report a change in circumstances now that she is a lot better, catching buses and walking much better, feeding tube no longer in etc. not that anyone gets re-assessed quickly even if they do report an improvement - it can take up to a year. the whole system is not fit for purpose.

In my experience when I was volunteering helping people fill out such forms (before I became disillusioned with the system), the process encourages people to focus on what they can't do, that then becomes a reward - getting their PIP and then what they 'can't do' becomes part of their identity almost. And then when they are reassessed, they again have to focus on what they can't do. There is nothing about what they can do or their strengths.

Unless the condition is permanent and unlikely to improve, PIP claimants are regularly reassessed and a great many are actually only in receipt of relatively short term awards because the likelihood of improvement/recovery has been factored in to the decision.

I don't know I am bothering tbh, but that poster said the person in question was a nurse manager.

From the RCN site:

Nurse Managers help patients by managing the nurses who care for them, drawing together patient experience and the coordination of the multidisciplinary team.

They can also play an important role in providing staff with learning and development opportunities. In senior leadership roles, nurse leaders may be involved in managing services or operations, or in commissioning. staff satisfaction; maintaining a safe environment for staff, patients, and visitors; ensuring standards and quality of care are maintained; and aligning the unit's goals with the hospital's strategic goals.

PIP isnt about whether you can walk or not its awarded on the basis you have a disability.
A disability is classified on the basis of how able you are of carrying out tasks in order to maintain a normal standard of living.