Family member awarded enhanced pip - AIBU?

Agree. This kind of attitude makes me so angry. Many times, as you say, PIP will have been awarded for a fluctuating condition, and as long as the condition affects you for at least 50% of the time you qualify. And what people don’t seem to realise is that specific activities are assessed. So if this person has not scored any points for being unable to prepare and cook then they’ve been assessed as having no problem with it - so she’s not doing anything wrong. Just because you can’t do some things doesn’t mean you’re completely incapable and PIP is awarded at different levels, depending on the level of impairment.

l’ve said it before and it’s worth repeating. Unless you live with a person 24 hours a day, are familiar with every aspect of their condition (with the medical knowledge to understand how it affects them), have access to their medical records and know every aspect of their claim for benefit and the grounds on which they have been awarded that benefit, then you know nothing, and you are in no position to judge.

The number of posters commenting from a position of utter ignorance about what PIP is intended for and how people can qualify, and yet feel qualified to judge whether someone is ‘cheating’ or not just by looking at them is astounding. Disabled people are not there to provide you with your ‘gotcha’ moment. They are human beings, and in very many cases they and their families are coping with conditions that would bring most of us to our knees. Instead of focusing on the extra benefits provided and seething with envy (as some posters on this thread very clearly are) why don’t you focus on why the extra funding is there. Because l guarantee all you able bodied nosy parkers out there that if you had some of the disabilities and health conditions l’ve witnessed in my years as a disability outreach worker, the extra funding would be your last consideration.

This is probably the most nakedly benefit bashing thread l’ve seen on MN, and that’s an achievement in itself.

The amount of people who "know a woman who...." never ceases to amaze me. These people who are gaming the PIP always seem to be a fan of extreme sports as well.🏂

You realise disabled people have good and bad days, right? Some days I can cook meals, other days it’s too dangerous as I’m wobbly and in pain and it’s a risk around hot food. Some days I can walk a fair distance but then can’t move for a day or two because of muscle spasms. What do people actually want? No help until we’re all literally in a corner rocking, needing our arses wiped and being tube fed? Are we not allowed any semblance of life?

She will not have been able to stop work just based on PIP payments, and your ‘’I know a woman’’ statement suggests you don’t know her all that intimately to know the ins and outs of her life. You sound more like a curtain twitcher. People need to learn to mind their own business a bit more

I did highlight the fact that l was talking specifically about the physical assessment for PIP mobility. There are different eligibility criteria for mental health and cognitive disorders, and both the standard and enhanced rates can be awarded on a combination of the two - and needing to be accompanied is considered for physical disabilities too.

It should be noted that an award of either the standard or enhanced rate of PIP mobility with at least 8 points scored from the moving around descriptors will qualify the claimant automatically for a blue badge. However, automatic entitlement to a blue badge is only possible solely on mental health/cognitive grounds by scoring 10 points from descriptor E in the Planning and following a journey category. People who do not satisfy these conditions may qualify for a blue badge under their Local Authority’s own rules, but eligibility is not automatic by way of a PIP award.

As with all the descriptors there is the consideration of the ability to mobilise safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly (as often as is reasonably required throughout the day) and in a reasonable time period - no more than twice as long as a person without the condition.

You are incorrect about the consideration of the ability to use public transport or not. This is not a factor in deciding PIP mobility, and neither is access to or reliability of public transport. And only those people who receive the enhanced rate of mobility component are eligible to join the motability scheme - either solely via the moving around or planning and following a journey descriptors , or a combination of the two.

And l’m not sure what you mean by ‘Motability elements are awarded to offset extra costs associated with travelling with a disability not to buy a car because you cant walk far.’ Firstly there is no ‘motability element’ to PIP. Claimants in receipt of the enhanced rate of PIP mobility are free to choose how they spend it, and very often a car is the most convenient and economical way for them to get around, regardless of whether their condition is one of mental or physical health - so having limited mobility absolutely can be a factor. And it’s not possible to buy a car on the motability scheme - vehicles are leased for a period of three, or in some circumstances five years and have to be handed back at the end of the lease period, and a new lease taken out if you want to stay mobile.

Far better controls are needed and IMO the system that is the motability car scheme needs totally scrapping and replacing with a limited scheme which provides specially adapted cars ONLY (for wheelchair users/amputees etc).

Another poster, who I am glad to say does not have any influence on how this scheme is run. So people who are not any of the above should not benefit from motability? Those people with walking issues that do not require a wheelchair, or those that just walk with a stick sometimes, have you considered them in your rush to give us your rather short sighted opinion?

I know a woman who has full PIP for fibromyalgia. She needs care from her daughters, can’t walk far, can’t shop, needs help with washing and dressing.

The reality is she managed to cook multiple large family meals for her adult daughters and grandchildren, drinks all day in the local pubs every weekend, has at least two boozy foreign holidays every year, looks after her toddler grandchildren for her daughter to work. Goes to every event / party.

Her daughters help themselves to her opiate based medication as she doesn’t appear to need it.

It’s a complete abuse of the system - she was able to fully stop work at 50 due to these payments. Meanwhile the rest of us honest people keep working to keep these people on their sofas and in the pub.

The mobility component of PIP continuing after state pension age needs reviewing too. How is it fair that someone who is awarded PIP mobility just before turning pension age can keep that component potentially until they die with light touch ten year reviews , yet someone suffering paralysis form a severe stroke a few days after turning state pension age can't get any mobility component on Attendance Allowance, can't get a mobility car etc yet could be just 66 years of age ? This is one of the questions I most frequently get asked by older people. Why can't I get a mobility car when my neighbour down the road who is the same age as me and similar level of disability can ? Why can one person get £75 a week more in mobility payment or a mobility car and the other can't? they both have the same costs and living with the same level of disability. In my advice team we see a surge of people just below pension age putting in PIP claims for this very reason. It's potentially a massive difference.

Source of what?

,Yes, I think the motability scheme needs scrapping. Personally I suspect it will be the first thing to go as part of a wider PIP review and not a second too soon

As pp pointed out, Motability is not run by the government, it is a charity.

Disabled people lease the cars, they don't own them. At the end of three years the cars are given back to motability which sells them on.

The car dealers who participate in the scheme make a profit, so the scheme contributes to the economy.

Do you think disabled people shouldn't be allowed to lease new cars in the same way non-disabled people can?@TouringTheTearooms? Perhaps you'd prefer we went back to the days of the three wheelers.

Sorry @Boomer55 I didn't mean to quote you. I am so cross I wasn't paying enough attention!

All these fraudulent claimants yet everyone that knows one never seems to report them.

The hate is fuelled by spite - pure and simple. People clearly do not understand the PIP system and how the motability scheme works, so their opinions are irrelevant. Thankfully, most people with any sense know that forcing disabled people to buy their own cars would not save the tax payer anymore money. They are just envious of the perception that people who they think dont work drive ‘’free cars’’ that others can’t afford etc.

There will always be people gaming the system, always. It’s not right but it can never be fully stopped, and it has to be said that if people are feeling the need to fraudulently claim benefits in order to live rather than earning money in a more productive way, it does make you wonder why - because most people WANT to earn their money, they want a purpose and meaning in life, it’s literally built into the human psyche.

You have to accept some loss in life for greater gain. It’s not the majority’s fault some people cheat the system. It’s just something that happens, and again, there are far more who are eligible but denied it than there are who are fraudulent.

The Motability Scheme is basically a charity. It’s not paid for by taxpayers.

“Who owns Motability? Motability is an independent charity that runs the mobility scheme for disabled people.1 Nov 2022”

”Motability is an independent charity that runs the mobility scheme for disabled people. It does not cost the government money, it is instead funded by disabled people who choose to spend their mobility allowance to pay for the cost of their car lease.
The charity publishes its own accounts and is run by a team of directors and staff who get paid by the charity to do the work. “

People receiving the enhanced mobility component can either lease a car, and have the money taken by the DWP, and sent to Motability, or they can just have the cash for cabs etc.

The amount of the mobility component will be the same, so taxpayers would save nothing from scrapping the scheme.

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/everything-you-ever-needed-to-know-about-motability/273895

Edited as I really should not rise to the bait.

I see the disability hate is still spewing from this thread. Sadly, some of you bigots will one day find out what it is like to be disabled. I am sure you won't apply for benefits, though.

I am disgusted MN has let this thread stand.

💐 to everyone who has tried to challenge the hate.

The mobility component isnt solely based on personal mobility.Yes you are assessed on this but it also includes whether you can use public transport safely, use roads safely and if you are mentally aware of your personal safety and if you need supervision to remain mobile hence why people with mental health disabilities can also be awarded this. Motability elements are awarded to offset extra costs associated with travelling with a disability not to buy a car because you cant walk far.

I know these people well, never said she wasn’t allowed to join in activities but don’t lie to the state about your condition just to rip off the services provided for vunerable people. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this woman,I don’t judge people just don’t like people taking the piss!!!!

Just a small fact to all those who think it is easy for disabled people to work, only 27% do.
Because they're lazy, workshy scroungers? No, because employers don't want to make reasonable adjustments.
As I said up thread £700 is the maximum you will receive on PIP and anything else is means tested. No housing or related benefits are awarded for disability, perhaps a loo seat etc if you are prepared to wait months.
I suspect this is a data gathering thread for the powers that be. Labour governments will tax anything they can and those less intelligent will find someone to blame. Do not wish for the megre allowance because you will go through a very humiliating process to get it with all dignity and respect stripped away. When you are abused for using a blue badge or having to use a buggy at a rail station you understand people aren't very nice. I've had more help abroad than in the UK. That is extremely sad. If any able bodied person feels they would like my £700 in exchange for my pain and suffering step on up. You'll soon change your mind. You never know when disability strikes, mine was in my late thirties. Did I bring it in myself? I did not. Unless you have a miracle cure for the many disabling conditions people suffer from (go that nurse with MS, you're a hero) wind your jealous, spiteful neck in.

Report her. They'll watch her from afar and revoke her benefits.

This thread reads like horrible anti-disability shit-stirring to me. You don’t know what’s going on day to day with other people. PIP is notoriously hard to get.

That friend could have a fluctuating condition and be completely incapacitated during regular flares up of it. Get on with your own life.

That's not true. My friend and colleague receives PIP, she's a nurse, she has MS. Relapsing remitting specifically. There are times that she is fine. Or more accurately, she can function to a good level. Then there are times that she has flare ups and is either off sick or is working but gets altered duties. But the majority of the time, she's working as normally, alongside the rest of the team.

Not that I’m saying it’s right as it’s not, but for every fraudulent claim, there are far more people being wrongly denied it. Something like 80% of denied claims which go to tribunal are overturned, and not everyone will bother going that far because they find it too overwhelming or don’t have an advocate. Unfortunately, as with any benefit, some will slip through, it’s just something that happens. If it helps the vast majority though, it’s worth keeping instead of taking things away from those in need when there is no personal or wider societal benefit of doing so.

Much as I don't think lying to get extra benefits is a very moral thing to do, this really REALLY isn't why the "country is on its knees" 🙄

What's rubbish about the Motability scheme is that it's one or the other. You can have a WAV, or you can have a wheelchair. Not both. If I chose a wheelchair, I can't go anywhere. If I chose a WAV, I can't get to it.

On top of that, you have to pay a deposit for the vehicle too, which can be thousands for a WAV and you also have to pay for any adaptations. Ramp, hoist etc. I had to save for seven years for a deposit on my WAV. While having to buy a powerchair on a credit card which is still not paid off.

Perhaps if there wasn't so much PIP fraud, there'd be more money for the things that disabled people actually need.

(And yes, there is PIP fraud. I mentioned my colleague earlier, who is proud of fraudulently claiming PIP. I know at least seven people have reported her to the DWP, over the last five years at least. Nothing has been done, despite SO much evidence that she is fraudulent being available. The fraud levels are so low because they're not actually bothering to investigate.)

Plus another point I forgot to make, you only get the car if you get the higher mobility component of PIP. If you get a car, that money goes to pay for the cars lease and repairs.

You still get the same amount of money on high rate motability component whether you choose to get a car or not, so the taxpayer isn’t paying any extra for someone to have a car. If they took away that higher mobility component, most disabled people wouldn’t be able to afford a car even second hand + repairs.

Nobody really gains anything for scrapping the motability scheme, the only thing it achieves is spitefully taking away a lifeline for a vast majority of genuine disabled people. The dealership sell it on second hand after it has been leased for three years.

People who don’t know how it works are bound to have that opinion though aren’t they

Oh and my dw does work in a physically demanding job and at times is in agony.