Family member awarded enhanced pip - AIBU?

But far from the only one

Not being able to work is an extra cost of disability.

Yep, this. I was a disability outreach worker and my experience was pretty much identical. Curiously, when government talk about the out of control sickness and disability benefits budget they omit to mention the added cost of tribunals, or that the system of assessment and award is utterly unfit for purpose. If Starmer wants the disability benefits bill brought under control the best way to achieve it is via wholesale reform of the way these benefits are assessed, so that the decision is right first time. I attended several tribunals and more than once the DWP were criticised for allowing cases where the claimant was clearly eligible for benefit to get as far as appeal. And the head of the tribunal services has called for a system whereby the DWP are fined for every claimant who goes to tribunal and wins.

Austerity has actually caused more people to be too unwell or disabled to work (and need PIP to be able work).

Of course some people would be too unwell or disabled to work regardless of austerity (and deserve support), but many wouldn't have been - if they'd received timely and effective help.

But the truth is fairly obvious. Austerity has failed. Recent estimates from the New Economics Foundation (NEF) - using numbers produced by the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) – confirm this (Stirling, 2019).

They find that the cumulative effect of austerity has been to shrink the economy by £100bn today compared to what it would have been without the cuts: that is worth around £3,600 per family in 2019/20 alone.

And, then there is the staggering social cost of the cuts.

Crime is up. Life expectancy has stopped rising but inequalities are growing again. Over a million people a year are now using foodbanks.

Homelessness has more than doubled. And poverty has started to rise once again: one-in-three children and around one in five pensioners have now dropped below the poverty line (DWP, 2019).

In the deluge of statistics, it is easy to lose sight of the fact that these are real people, families and communities, who rely on government support to get by, and who have been devastated by austerity.

https://www.ippr.org/articles/austerity-there-is-an-alternative-and-the-uk-can-afford-to-deliver-it

You're right that austerity is the problem @SpringYay

I've posted about this on other threads.

• Well-founded and well-run public services with no postcode lottery of access or quality.

• Supportive benefits system

• Improved child support system

• More social housing

• Job, education, and training opportunities

• Good public transport

All the above mean people get timely and effective support - so then many people have less need for support and need it for shorter periods of time.

Austerity is cruel - and also bad economics.

Eh, is not rather the years of austerity and raging incompetence of the last government?

I work in welfare rights and do a PIP application most weeks, sometimes two. All my clients have mental health issues and are under the care of a community mental health team, many of them have had recent mental health admission. A fair proportion of them have physical health issues as well, quite a few are neurodivergent.

Around 40% of my applications are turned down initially; around a third of those are awarded at mandatory reconsideration stage. The rest go before a tribunal.

My success rate at appeals is 100%.

If it was that easy to get, I wouldn't have to do so many bloody appeals.

Agree, report them, you can do it anonymously.
www.report-benefit-fraud.service.gov.uk/details
But don't put it on Mumsnet - it really upsets people who receive and are fully entitled to these benefits.

Oh fabulous another benefits bashing thread based on anecdote and ramping up anti disabled sentiment. If you are sure someone is defrauding the system then report them. PIP is difficult to claim with stringent eligibility criteria and assessments, in my experience robust medical evidence is required. Just depressing to see the same old "stories" offered up on here. Disabled people have enough to deal with without people making stuff up just to have a go.

This is obviously morally wrong. And I don't blame you for thinking badly of her. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to tell on her, but I'd be feeling like I respected her a lot less.
I am always terrified of being in trouble with the DWP even though I know I've always been honest. I don't know how some people can live with the guilt and worry you'll be found out!
It is really horrible. And why tell people you lied? Aren't they worried it could be used against them? Or do they think they're the local genius?

It also seems, going by the anecdotes on this thread, that there's no need to monitor people's bank accounts. Seeing as people "playing the system" seem to be very open about it - telling everyone they know, from extended family to neighbours to casual acquaintances. Almost crying out to be caught (which actually suggests serious mental health issues).

months of the painkillers they desperately needed were stacked on the side unopened too.

Sounds like that person is mentally unwell and possibly needs support from adult social care. Not taking needed painkillers, and moving heavy furniture with a injured back (risking damaging it further), suggests there's mental health issues or other social care needs.

Re the savings. If true that's wrong to take advantage of your church and is unfair on the majority of very genuine people in need. But then there's always been people who will do the wrong thing. Including crime. If not benefits crime, they'll do another crime.

It's simply unconscionable to harm the majority of genuine claimants - degrade them and take away their dignity, because of the actions of the few.

By that argument, like I've said upthread, everyone's bank accounts, on benefits or not, would have to be monitored because some people commit fraud, steal from their employers, etc.

It's a difficult one. I don't think peoples bank accounts should be checked purely because they're on benefits and a lot of politicians dont seem to be aware of the additional costs of having a disability. However our old church were helping someone who claimed severe poverty and disability. I'm talking people visiting on their days off to get shopping etc the man with the bad back doing the gardening and decorating for them. All the free help stopped when we became aware they'd just been reprimanded for having over 30k in savings they hadn't declared. When the gardener went up to start the decorating work he found they had been moving all the heavy furniture around by themselves and months of the painkillers they desperately needed were stacked on the side unopened too. They had told the DWP their disabilities were that severe they could not even bend down and are agoraphobic. Neither of the latter were true. So there does need to be some sort of surveillance for want of a better word. The difficulty of course would be monitoring it. People often move a couple of hundred into their savings if they have a bill to pay then move it back. I think as long as the DWP sees it being used they don't mind.

I remember that one. I think the confusion came because the woman lived about a Martin McColls didn't she? so the flat was registered as something like 1a Martin McColls etc and they put 2&2 together and came up with 5 assuming the shop name must have been her partner.

Arguably one of the extra costs of your disability @ZanyPombear is being unable to work, but like everyone else still having essential living costs.

I get adult disability payment and I spend it on living costs because I can’t work so it doesn’t really cover the “extra” cost of my disability

Bigger crooks out there

And how much would it cost to have a system that reflects people's needs? Some of us don't have the same costs every week.

I'd rather be given money and spend it on what I feel appropriate than being given a catalogue / items bought for me.

The NHS, LA &/or PIP/DLA doesn’t cover anywhere near all the equipment some disabled people need. Some spend thousands upon thousands &/or rely on charity grants for lots of equipment.

Scope’s disability price tag research is the average amount on top of disability benefits such as PIP and DLA.

Fundings the additional equipment needed & extra funding for things the system doesn't cover is very different to someone who needs funds for a mobility scooter & someone to do a bit of gardening twice a month.

Much of the equipment needed for disabled people is already funded via NHS or local authority. Not, all, and very basic, and in my experience disabled people tend to use PIP if they need something more tailored to their needs which is not widely available.

And again, I take issue with the statement highlighted. PIP and other disability benefits are meant to cover the extra costs of living with substantial disability - whatever those may be. I gave an example upthread. Someone with severe mobility problems for example would need help with housework, gardening, cooking, routine home maintenance. If they need help with personal care, social services charge, and many local authorities include PIP in the financial assessment. If someone is incontinent they are going to have higher bills due to extra washing/bathing/laundry - many people I dealt with as an outreach worker had to buy in laundry services too. And many councils charge for personal/medical waste collections for those with stomas or other needs.

Some people may not drive, so may need taxies, or they may be housebound and much of what they need in the way of consumables has to be delivered or brought in. It all costs, and the system does reflect that - hence the different rates of PIP payable according to the level of disability assessed.

Scope - a very well respected disability charity carried out a survey and the conclusion was that substantial disability carries with it an extra cost of over £900 a month. PIP falls a couple of hundred pounds short of that even when paid at the higher rates. So to dismiss a benefit so important to disabled people as ‘funding for a mobility scooter and someone to do a bit of gardening’ is over simplifying which, from this post, gives me the impression clearly suits your narrative. Which, if you are disabled yourself, is hard to understand.

completely agree.

A family member has pip. Last assessment it was raised. Her DP mentioned that she could not stand on a chair to change a lightbulb, and a few other very simple things she cannot do. These all counted towards a higher pip, but she walks okay with a stick - better than DP, in fact. The point is that she cannot reliably do everday things which we tend to do without thinking.

Forgive me. 12-13 years. Yes, I was previously on DLA. I wasn't stating that my experience was the norm, or that some people weren't failed by it. I was explaining that, despite other posters saying that it wasn't possible to not be assessed more often/without face to face/evidence, well that isn't the case for all.

As I'd said in my post, I wasn't explaining myself perfectly but I stand by the view. Someone unable to do a single thing, with two to one care needs, with 24/7 paid support in their own home, with different bits of electrical medical equipment to keep them alive, all costing money (with only some or not assistance from their NHS trust for the electrical costs) should not get the same amount of money as someone who manages all their needs independently.

I'm not saying the other group don't deserve support, but atm the two flat rates don't really reflect the variation of needs.

For example, my friend has received both DLA & PIP for a long time. When she started she could manage tasks, but it took her longer & she had some symptoms. She had four care calls a day. Walking was okay inside but needed a chair for distance. She received higher rate for both.

Fast forward 20 years & she can do nothing for herself, her capacity varies & has several electrical items to support her coughing, turning, mobilising etc. 24/7 waking support, two to one with partial health funding. She still gets higher rate PIP for both but the experiences are miles apart in the difference life stages.

It doesn't seem right to me.

The term severe disability is thrown around a lot these days but some people have no idea what it's like. Fundings the additional equipment needed & extra funding for things the system doesn't cover is very different to someone who needs funds for a mobility scooter & someone to do a bit of gardening twice a month. That's not to say both groups aren't disabled or indeed, entitled to PIP.

My friend can't even get a WAV to get out of their own home because they need their PIP is required for other basic needs for survival. Transport is a luxury at this end of the scale.

You are welcome to "take issue", but my life experience & that of those around me has shown the true cost of disability. It's not equal, but as always, those with the highest needs suffer the most. The system should reflect that.

Disabled people do face enough judgement, thankfully I'm not judging disabled people but the system that doesn't truly reflect the needs.

I don’t disagree with that at all. Judging by some of the comments here, people seem to think they are much more qualified than medical assessors to decide whether someone is genuine or not - and just based on what they see on the surface. Must be fantastic to be able to make that determination when you know next to nothing about someone’s condition and have absolutely no medical training. Why these people haven’t applied for, and been taken on as DWP assessors is beyond me !!