To envy my sister's freedom?

YANBU kids are hard work and she's going to relax on holiday.

It's normal to be envious of something you want but believe you can't have.

Would you be able to arrange a holiday away from your children and your dh can then do the same? There is nothing wrong in wanting a break.

I believe nothing that is meant for you will pass you by.

There are plus points of having kids. They are amazing but very hard work of course. Book that holiday or break and have a chill. You will see your envy reduce.

Your sister is probably envious of you and at times looks at your babies and wonders what if.

I very much doubt she is.
I have never felt envious of people with children, quite the opposite! I love being childfree and think how stressful days out etc look with kids, they change the dynamic of everything - to me in a negative way which is why I choose not to have children.

I don’t get where this arrogant view that childfree women must be somehow envious of people with kids comes from.

I’m happy for people who want to be parents and have children, good for them, but no the majority of childfree women do not envy you.

Yes, that’s definitely not on.

I agree with you that's not helpful.

I agree with you there @KimberleyClark but I think that sometimes goes both ways, though perhaps not nearly that often. This being the Internet.

There are a couple of posters who are constantly posting on threads by new sleep deprived mums asking for help with screaming babies, saying " I am so glad I didn't have children." Not sure how that is helpful or even convincing. That's petty too.

I think it's especially petty of parents to come over to the MNers without Children board where we are all quietly minding our own business enjoying our child freedom to tell us how wrong and misguided we are.

It seems equally important for childfree people on the internet to tell parents they NEVER envy ANYTHING about their lives EVER, so I think both ‘sides’ do their share of trying to rub the other’s face in the superiority of their choices. It’s all fairly petty and not how people interact irl in my experience, but this kind of thing is endemic on the internet and it isn’t limited to the choice on whether or not to have children.

OP; you seem pretty self aware of why you feel this way and I don’t think it’s unreasonable. You have a pang of envy for what she’s doing, but it’s not like you want to step into her skin and swap your lives - you’d want to do the same thing “as you”, but there’s psychological or practical reasons you feel you can’t right now. All perfectly normal. Even people who are perfectly happy experience this, whether it’s over jobs or where they live or holidays etc.

I love my DC more than anything, wouldn't send them back for the world, but am I envious of friends who can just jet off on a weekend break? Of course!

I am sure that is the case though I don't usually go in there.

True.

Because it seems that it’s very important for some parents to get that point across over there.

I’ll tell you where you’ll see lots of posts about how great it is to have kids and how lonely we’ll be without them in our old age. On the Mumsnetters without children board.

I dont think anyone is envious of me. However if you never see any posts about the upsides of kids, it's because people mostly post their problems on the Internet.

I love my husband and see many upsides in our marriage. But why would I post that? Serves no purpose and would be seen as smug, especially on MN. Same goes for kids.

And as I said earlier, I go away lots on solo trips so I don't have that to envy.

Envy is normal but I highly doubt her sister wonders what if. I have yet to meet a single child free person who is envious of those with kids, what exactly is there to be envious of? I'm genuinely asking, not trying to be mean, but I haven't really seen a lot of posts here, if any, about the upsides of having kids.

ill admit thats partly why i prefer being single, to do x,y,z, as and when

Envy is normal , just don’t let it affect your relationship and see it as a sign that you need a bit more time to yourself.

Your sister is probably envious of you and at times looks at your babies and wonders what if.

@didmymakeupsonice I quoted above from one of the articles I linked.

It literally says Single women, particularly in old age, are at highest risk of poverty

Well so just saying single women are financially poor as opposed to any other group is incorrect then. That was my point.

Perfectly normal to feel this. My sis goes off on nice camping trips with her dog, whereas mine was chaos and stress when I took the kids! But grass is always greener... would you really be without them if you had the choice? :)

(Still perfectly fine to want everyone to sod off and for some lovely alone time tho)

Being a childfree cat lady is as good as it gets as far as I’m concerned.

Doubtful

Same, I can't think of one thing I would be envious of.

Yeah I don't envy the life of those with children either. That's why I don't have them......my friends have had lots (average 3 each), and by and large they are engaging, engaged and smart kids, well brought up and a credit to their parents. And I'm really pleased about that because all those friends really wanted families. Me? Motherhood looked like a physical horror show followed by years of utter drudgery offset by just enough heartwarming moments that you don't leave them on a hillside. So I didn't do it. I just don't have whatever outlook or personality makes that look fun. Lord knows I hated crafting etc even when I was a child 😀
I would just comment though, even as a fairly high earner, that all the "endless holidays" comments get slightly wearing. I have a demanding job. And a mortgage. And elderly parents. I'm not swanning off on holiday twice a month. I probably do get to the pub more though 😀

Btw I'm sorry @soloholidayenvy

I didn't mean to derail your thread.

I hope, if you want a solo or childfree holiday, you feel confident enough to try it at some point.

I know it's hard leaving your children - I felt the same when I first did it (for a three day work event) but they were fine with my DH.

Maybe if you want to, try a short break like a weekend away. Perhaps with your sister if you want to connect more with her. Or maybe with a mum friend who's also doing a first break away from the kids, so would understand how you feel.

Precisely why we didn't have kids. Both make very good money and we pretty much go where we want, when we want and spend what we want without ever having to worry if we afford it. I suppose for some people it goes both ways, people with kids envy those without BC of their money and freedom and those without envy those with kids for something, I don't quite know what BC I don't envy people with kids but you see what I'm saying

@user39501790
You mentioned income protection insurance in case illness prevents working. Lots of people can't afford it. Cost of living is high. You'll probably say everyone should get higher paid jobs (as if it's so easy) but then who does the many lower paid jobs?

Also what about people who've been ill or disabled since childhood?

What about if you have a career you love and plan to travel but then your dad dies, your mum has an illness that leaves her disabled and then gets cancer with no one to care for her? You might choose to look after your mum because you love her but the choice wasn’t influenced by any decisions you made.
It's still a choice to care. It's still a decision. You may feel there are no moral alternatives but there are alternatives so it's your decision.

Not exactly a real choice (unless lacking any morals - or some exceptions like an abusive childhood etc). What choice is there? Leaving your elderly or disabled loved one to be neglected and die?