To think DH should suck his boring job up...

Slightly off topic here but do you mind saying what you did, what you now do and how you found the retraining? Thank you

Well it isn't faux because it describes my Gran and Grandfather's arrangements, and it isn't weird. It is saying people in modern times have different domestic arrangements from the times of my late Grandparents. Women are not just taking pilates classes and having coffee and expecting their H to bring in the money, take all financial decisions and do all the DIY. In modern times, women do these things too

How is any of this weird faux sociology of other women’s work histories relevant to this thread. This man is not a househusband and not doing the unpaid child and eldercare work that women historically have done.

Really? Retirement ages are now the same for men and women. I, a woman, do all the finances and, having worked in financial services, it was mostly women in my experience from 1980s to 2020s who did the finances. I can say my Gran (born 1913) and my Grandad (born 1916) had somewhat of the arrangement you describe although my Gran did work outside the home. My Gran and Grandad were born over 100 years ago, and your descriptions of male and female roles may have evolved since then. Your descriptions of ladies doing choir practice, pilates and coffee mornings sound quite angry towards their Hs tbh for reasons that are not apparent

@Onwardsandsidewaysyetagain In my experience, women may manage the domestic side of things (or not) but many men do the financial side of housekeeping and the DIY stuff.I know a lot of older women who do pilates, choir, coffee with friends and some are highly indignant when their husbands dare to retire and intrude on their happy life. I think I am right in saying that statistically men retire later and at at an older age than women.
Someone has to financially support the economically inactive women and, statistically, there are a lot more women in this bracket of economically inactive than men.

Could I just point out that becoming a train driver does demand a lot of training (!). It's not just a matter of hopping in and starting the engine and off you go.

Are you happy? Is your H? I feel like you may be but he isn't and don't understand why it's necessary to say your H is blue colour and that you're earning more than double his money. My H does a manual job and I love and respect him for doing it. He is also a brilliant father and grandfather. No way would I demean my H for doing a manual job while I did a white colour one. I would have an open and honest conversation between the two of you. You might find your H has a different perspective. I hope you find a way forward that suits your family

It may be that his plan is not great, and in that case it's not unreasonable to oppose it.

But if the man's bored and unhappy in his job, it is unreasonable to tell him that that's just his life and he's stuck with it. You ought to be contributing to helping him out of that situation.

And neither of those things really touch on the separate problem that your worldview - ambitious, high-achieving and all that commendable stuff - makes it difficult for you to put up with his worldview - unambitious, not-at-all-driven and all that stuff which is only alright if you're not expected to contribute to a family.

It doesn't sound to me as if you think he'll make a go of being his own boss - and you're probably in the best place to make that call. But if he thinks that being his own boss is the only way he can escape being bored and unhappy in his present job, then you're at an impasse.

Thing is, if someone really wants to be their own boss, they'll find a way to do it, whatever it takes.

I think I'd say to him, "If over the next twelve months you can make as much money with a van as you currently make working - but without giving up the current job - then you can give up the current job."

To which he will say, "What? I have to do two jobs for a year?"

To which you say, "Well, yeah. It's hard work building a business."

Is there a way he can give this a go without completely without putting your family finances and relationship in jeopardy? Could he reduce his hours to 0.6 and then have a stab at the ‘van’ business for say 9 months to see how it goes? That would leave him 4 free days a week to build up his business. If it turns out the grass isn’t greener on the other side then he can return to FT work.

I understand why you wouldn’t want to tread on his dreams but it sounds like he hadn’t really thought it through.

I get why you're stressed but tell him he needs 20 year plan to retirement.

Man with a van only works for about another 5 or max 8 years before physically that's not going to be possible for him anymore.

Does he have a long term strategy?

Until he has, it's not an option.

@Feedable I know what you mean, but in my experience, the women who stay home and don't work do the bulk of the childcare and the bulk of the household management, including when the children become teens and then students. You might not think it takes a whole person to do that, but they tend to be doing everything household (wifework) and child related. I think it's fine if the effort by both is equal, but with different tasks, and agreed by everyone. The Op doesn't agree this is a fair distribution though, and I agree.

I have lots of my friends who have never really worked.They have had one or two children and relied on their husbands to earn the dosh.They have had play jobs, making jewellery. selling things on Etsy but there is a very obvious subtext that women do their bit having children and the rest of their life off. I have always worked. Retired from full time work at 65, then childcare for grandchildren four days a week and still manage a small part time job in my former career. I am mid seventies now.
I am scared of not working and doing my bit and I feel bemused by women who use the excuse of having had a baby forty odd years ago as a reason for not working. There are a lot of them. Many look after their own parents, using their husbands money to support themselves.
The growing numbers of economically inactive who honestly think it is their human right not to work seems wrong to me.

He's definitely being unreasonable, the question is though do you truly want to save your marriage or are you half out the door?

If you are half out the door (as you might be doing 80% of everything in the household and working long full-time hours) then in a way, it doesn't matter what he does next. He's the lower earner AND the lazier one in the house, you can't be both without starting to encroach on the wellbeing of the other partner.

If you are keen to make it work (still fancy him, still want to remain a family unit), don't try to problem solve with him, he just rejects your ideas, I would go through the finances together and work out how much you need to live on per week and what his contribution would be- and listen to his 'dreams' of the white van (annoying but do listen, as if you shut it all down, he's going to remain fixed in his position).

I do know couples where the load, both financial and in the house, is quite uneven and they are happy with it, and where they are not happy with it. I don't think it's unreasonable to find the 'deal' he's offering unpalatable, but it may be despite all that you want to remain in the marriage and so if that's the case, you need to find a way to talk without you getting cross and without him getting on the defensive- more of an ideas pitch than an argument about your respective positions in life.

He should be doing more at home full stop, as you are both working right now, so him stepping up for that is necessary anyway.

I'd be seriously fucked off op. £40k job and he wants to be a white van man because he's bored? Are you sure he's not joking?

Nothing wrong with being bored in a reasonably well paid job. If he has time on his hands there are plenty of domestic jobs to do. The man with a van is the male equivalent of opening a horse box coffee stall. It's a saturated market to be blunt.

And I suspect you’ll be doing more than 20% of housework/childcare that OP’s husband is doing!

OP - if you are earning the majority of the household income AND doing the majority on the home front then your current set-up is not equitable - never mind your husband’s proposal.

Every adult in a household should be an equal partner. The gender reversal argument is just used to try and shut women down.

YANBU. Man with a van jobs will be physical surely? Picking up sofas etc so it doesn't even stack up with what he wants to do. It is also likely to be at least some weekend work, he needs to buy a van to set up so there's that, insurance and fuel to take into account. Holiday/sick pay - non existent. If he was going to do it around primary school DC and pick up the majority of childcare and house work etc that would be a different thing.

All the men I know who are self employed are incredibly stressed and/or earning very little. My DP is self employed in a physical job and earns probably around £40K but has cashflow issues, no pension and often works 7 days per week with very little holiday. He is, at least, doing something outdoors that is good for his MH and that he enjoys and is interested in.

Can he not go do supermarket deliveries, then he’s a man with a van with a job

Why on earth are you doing 80% of the domestic work when you work very long hours and earn twice what he does? Everything about his behaviour is unreasonable.

YANBU for wanting him to have an income and worry about the affordability of going self-employed.

It is slightly unfair though to ‘blame’ him for a lack of work ethic. He’s stayed the same and you’ve changed. That’s not his fault.

I think you are both unreasonable.

You can't just veto your husband's career choices and he needs to be a bit more flexible about what he wants to.

If he likes driving he has many options:

• taxi driver
• bus driver
• delivery driver
• train driver
• get the proper licence and become a long-haul driver.

The above are perfectly decent jobs and would get him out of being stuck in an office.

I'd seriously reconsider the relationship. He's used to your higher wage and doing fuck all at home, so thinks he'll work part-time and have a lot more time for himself at your expense.

I'd separate while he's still on that salary - it'll be a hell of a lot more expensive afterwards.

Also as to why the history is relevant.
Maybe previously, you were PT and him FT. All housework done.
Now, he is still FT but has to do more of the housework, yeah he gets expensive treats and holidays but is that what he wants?

A bigger conversation regarding your responsibilities needs to happen.

My husband and I are in a similar situation, we don't really do any housework. We have cleaners and a gardener. Kids are old enough to do their own laundry, monitor their own admin. Anything they need we just order off Amazon.

He does mine (and his laundry) cooks his own food (autistic so restricted diet). Does the shop. I do the family cooking because I'm better at it that's all.

You might need to outsource more. I'm not saying your husband should do NOTHING but instead, consider whether you want to spend money on things that actually improve your daily lives instead of holidays and expensive things.

Work probably takes up 1/3 of your life.

If you are not happy at work, you are probably not going to be happy in the rest of your life either. So probably a fairly quick route to divorce.

Your husband needs to find a job that he enjoys more, yet still fulfills his financial commitments to the family.

Whether or not his proposals to go self employed will achieve this I have no idea.

I am the main earner in my household. My DH gave up his teaching assistance job to start his own business. He still earns a similar amount but is a lot happier and fulfilled. The downside is that his work does take up so much of his time. We have a lot of battles around housework as he always prioritises work. I am in the position of being and breadwinner and housekeeper!

Despite this he is happier and I want him to have a job he likes. I am lucky that I like my job. But it would have been easier for me if he had stayed in his original job. I refuse to give up on the housework battle though, it’s an ongoing struggle.