Am at a loss to how to deal with 13 yo stealing

Yeah, ok, and you know for a fact that the one and only thing the OP has not tried yet is calling the police? So your advice is totally #1 best option and won’t further escalate things and absolutely could not cause a 13yo to go further off the rails.

There are many actions OP can take without involving the police. The police are only going to hang about until everyone is calm anyway. They aren’t going to arrest a 13yo child. Then the police leave and OP will have the fallout of her DD going, really mum, I can never trust you as you called the police on me. Her friends will back her up on this. Your option is last resort, not first port of call.

I thought you meant stealing from shops and such. She sounds miserable. I think a good sense of humour and having fun together could help your relationship. It seems like that’s what you might need, to connect. Once you have a good relationship with her the respect will grow and she’ll listen to you. When you speak to her about things, be mindful of how it sounds and remember how you would have felt as a teenager. Even when you’re not feeling it it’s important to make her feel good about herself and show her love. I come from an overly strict family. It didn’t work. There was no joy in our house. We give our kids so much respect and it comes back to us ten fold. They’re still monkeys sometimes but I pick my battles. Good luck.

She needs support, boundaries, and consequences.

Does she have an iPhone? Parental co trolls allow you to shut it down from your phone. No fighting for ownership of the actual device. She smashes it frustration. You don’t replace with another good phone, a brick for calling you in an emergency. She takes her sisters things, she loses pocket money / something she desires.

But don’t just punish without conversation and support. When she’s not in the overwhelm phase / angry / lashing out talk to her. Why is she behaving like this. She needs to know she is supported and loved and you want to be there for her.

My daughter had a phase of bad behaviour. Turns out she felt that we treated her completely unfairly to her brother. She talked to me about what that looked like to her and actually, I could see why she felt that way, even if I didn’t fully agree, but we made some changes that worked for us as a family and things improved over time and with consistency.

you’re the grown up here. You need to put the boundaries in place and help her through this. She sounds very angry and upset.

You realise « hit her where it hurts » is being used figuratively, right?
‘This behaviour would drive me mad and I would go cold turkey on the phone. Cancel the contract

It does sounds like unhappy behaviour, possibly hormonal. While she might be choosing to be on her phone a lot we as adults know that a 13 year old spending her time like that and not seeing friends is not at all good for her mental health.

I would try to step outside of the current dynamic and try to view how she is behaving as communication. I wonder what is going on for her.

If you don’t want to get her counselling - and she may refuse anyway - think how you can try connect with her yourself.

Can you lure her away from the phone and spend some time together? I’d have a go at getting her away from the phone by being busy with other things initially. Something you can do together so it doesn’t seem like a punishment.

i wouldn’t go straight in for a deep and meaningful conversation, just start to connect and talk more.

Oh give over.

OP has clearly been trying her best, and things are still escalating. It's not going to get better until she takes action, and that sometimes means doing serious things. This is a serious situation.

I did read the link. Amazed that is all you got from it. It’s presented as a last resort if you feel you are in immediate danger and threatened and lists many other things a parent should try and do first.

Your post implies the first and only thing one should do is call the police every time your 13yo girl decides to scream and break a few things.

Right so your husband is being useless. If he doesn't believe in counselling and he's not around, he's not going to be helpful.

Something has to change. She needs help from a doctor and some diagnostic therapy. You have to take her phone away, whether you like it or not. If she gets violent, you call the police. You've got to do the things you're afraid of doing to fight for your child's wellbeing.

Yeah, so then there is something deeper going on with her. I am more convinced she needs assessment and counselling, you can try and ask her what is going on, is she ok, is there a reason why she does this and if she trusts that you want to help her rather than hurt/punish her, she may open up to you.

No I'm not. You can absolutely call the police on a violent child. Try reading the link.

"Calling the police - You may feel reluctant to call in the police as you may not want your child to get into serious trouble or for other reasons. The police have been working with many families on adolescent to parent violence and abuse and understand the impact. If you are in fear for your safety or you are feeling threatened it is ok to call the police to help diffuse the situation and for you to feel safe."

This is extreme behaviour (not the taking toiletries - does she have her own nice perfume?) but the reaction. Take her phone off her. The problem is if you’ve never done it before it is going to be a very strong reaction. But you’ve got to stand your ground. I think I family counselling for you and dh to learn how to parent her would be a start (and if dh thinks she doesn’t need counselling).

what is your DH’s suggestion for how to manage this if he thinks counselling is not the answer?

and yes you can call the police - a friend did it when her 13 yo became violent and it was the best thing she could have done.

Are you utterly mad? You don’t call the police on a 13yo child. You contact the GP and get a referral to mental health.

Stealing is a symptom of whatever is going on. I think you have more serious support needs. Assessment and counselling pronto.

She has a phone addiction

This is your primary problem. If you can't take her phone turn off the WiFi for extended periods while pretending there's something wrong with the internet

But you need to get that phone off her, is she on it all night because you've allowed this ?

I think you need to address the disrespect first. If she is rude etc you do not engage at all. You have to stay calm. Let her know she has crossed a boundary and then ignore. Although this is hard. I agree with others that her phone should be taken. If you pay for it then you might have to ride the storm. Remember she is still a child and coming into teenage emotions and that makes them not very easily able to regulate emotions. You have to hold the line. Find space to talk to her if you can, in the car etc. remember it feels personal but you cannot react that way, you have to stay calm.

Parenting a teenager is a fine balance of a good relationship , non judgement , fairness on both sides and also picking your battles . The way you speak it sounds like this has been building for a while , ‘hitting her where it hurts’ etc will not work long term as it will build resentment on both sides.
You need to repair your relationship with her , spend time together , encourage open dialogue , ensure she feels respected and listened to. By doing these things you will garner a mutual trust and from there build on the issues that concern you . You’re starting from rock bottom and it will
require time and patience and a lot of give on your part to begin with.

Don’t do this. Please.
This will destroy your relationship with her.

Call the police when this happens.

Where is her father?

Some of this is typical teenage behaviour- rudeness especially towards parents and older siblings.

The using of others perfume and skin care, I would not class as stealing myself. I’d be thinking why is she doing this? Does she not have her own toiletries? Perhaps she is experimenting with what you and older DD have because she is trying out what it is like to be a woman and wear perfume, or have a skin care routine. Have you given her any sort of guidance on this? She is growing up.

Stealing money is stealing, but again why is she doing this? Does she have pocket money? If not, she probably should be getting some. If she does, is it enough. If it’s plenty of pocket money, then I’d be concerned she is stealing the money to buy things she shouldn’t have or perhaps to buy things she is too embarrassed to ask for or to pay off a bully. I would be asking her what is going on? Are you doing ok?

I think when teenagers start misbehaving a lot, there is usually a cause to it behind usual teen hormones. Sometimes there is bullying by other students or even staff. Sometimes there are fears and confusion over approaching adulthood. It is usually a good idea to approach things from a place of concern than the telling off and punishment route- especially since you’ve said this is persistent despite you telling her off. You need to dig deeper and get her to open up to you.

How did it begin? Has she always been an oppositional child, or is this a recent change?