Am at a loss to how to deal with 13 yo stealing

Bad behaviour isn't always because of poor mental health and being unhappy.

She sounds like a spoilt brat to me, who has learnt that if she kicks off and is aggressive there at no consequences.

The op doesn't want to be physically hurt nor does she want her home and possessions destroyed.

I would cancel the phone contract for a start.

OP - I mean this constructively but I’ve read all of your posts and you don’t seem to understand your daughter at all. Her behaviour is literally screaming for attention, she’s clearly angry and unhappy, teenagers experience emotions very intensely and she is really really struggling.

I asked you if you ever do anything nice together and what her strengths were and you said you sometimes talk nicely and she does a few extra curricular activities. If this is all you can come up with then no wonder she you feel you don’t understand her and it’s likely she doesn’t feel undervalued or understood. I know teenagers are bloody difficult but she must have strengths, interests and passions which you could nurture and her her to feel happier and more connected to you as her family.

Therapy would really help you understand each other and you should consider doing this even if their father disagrees. Understanding how you are all beholden to an absent man could even be helpful to explore in therapy. There’s part of me that’s concerned about why he is opposed to therapy - what is he worried about?

I knew a girl like this, growing up. A shoplifter. Absent shit father was the common denominator. Grew into a very entitled, manipulative person.

As pp has said, the other parent in this situation needs to step up and act, and show an interest in his daughters.

Require him to do so, OP. Ask him straight, does he want to be involved in their parenting or not? If he says yes, then ask him for his better solution to this behaviour as parenting is 50-50, 365 days a year x 18, not fuck off for months and delegate the hard parts.

If he refuses, you can ignore him and you lay down the law with your younger daughter, starting with cancelling of her phone contract and WiFi restrictions.

Are you scared of him, OP?

To echo what some other posters have mentioned - if it’s got to the point that other parents have mentioned to you that she’s mean to other students then she must be REALLY mean at school. It would take extremely bad behaviour for me to be moved to comment to the parent of another child.

I honestly think that you need to put the option of a private counsellor to your DH again, this time more forcefully, really emphasising how you are at a loss as to how to discipline DD2 and telling him that all your attempts haven’t worked and she is entirely resistant. She is violent, aggressive and abusive at times so you know that the poor girl is suffering….crying out for help.

If your DH is away a lot, he isn’t at the coal face of the problem at all OP. It’s sad that you have to agonise over possible solutions and rule the obvious ones out for lack of funds or because your DH doesn’t agree with them.
You have to overcome this somehow.

DD2 is terrorising the household with her lack of regard and respect for you and her sister and the longer this is habit forming the harder it will be to help her.

Your DD1 deserves a private space and you must do all you can to ensure she gets it asap.

If a final heart to heart with both girls doesn’t work, then I would have no hesitation in buying a lock out of Dd2’s pocket money as a consequence which will solve the problem of her being able to use DD1’s stuff. Tell your husband afterwards instead of seeking his agreement. He is no position to agree or disagree. It’s time to act on your own initiative.

You need to sit down with dd2 and say ‘when your behaviour is x or you choose to do y’ this is being disrespectful. As your parent, I can’t allow you to treat me or your sister like this so there will be consequences. These will be….
You might have a bad reaction to this, but it will still be happening. The longer it goes on, the longer the consequence lasts.

i agree with the counselling and seeing the GP too. If period related, ask about Eloine pill

Is she worse around the time of her period? My daughter changed completely after her periods started - it was scary how a loving girl could change into one who hated me. It was a tremendous shock for me and I'm sure it was for her, too.

I think if your husband is away from home for 9 months a year he doesn't have the right to stop you arranging counselling for your daughter. He isn't there to witness what's going on and frankly doesn't have to put up with it.

How is your daughter in school?

It's relatively easy to keep things safe - you can buy a safe for each of you and you could get locks on the bedroom doors - you could have a key to your elder daughter's room.

Her attitude is much more worrying. She doesn't sound happy - that's not to say you haven't tried to give her a happy home, but maybe hormonally she's a mess and feeling everything so much stronger than usual. I would speak to my doctor about her and see whether they could make any suggestions.

She’s angry, isolating herself from her family and stealing, does she seem happy - just because you don’t see why she should be unhappy doesn’t mean she’s not, would a happy person act this way?

dd1 is scared of dd2 so she would avoid any conflict with her sister if possible. I have been helping her with strategies with protecting her stuff (like marking lines on her perfumes with markers). It is not exactly though because I have no clue with dd2 anyways.

Thanks for responding OP.

You say you are happy with DH and there is no tension between you. Is there no tension between you both as long as you do what he says and take his wishes and preferences into account ?

May I please ask the question again ….. Do you wish you could parent differently?
Or, to put it another way, - Would you parent differently if you didn’t have to take his wishes/preferences/directives into account or would you parent exactly the same regardless?

I agree with this. I used to do the same when I was around the same age, except it escalated to stealing from shops too. I felt awful every time but I didn't know I had undiagnosed ADHD and it was an impulse behaviour that gave me a dopamine hit and also was a cry for attention. My parents never dealt with it but I wish they'd taken it seriously and tried to get help at the time. I was very lucky I never got in trouble with the police

I'm not sure you need a professional to tell you that it's because her dad is absent and can't be bothered with her, and her mum is far too passive to even take a 13yo's phone off her.

And you wonder why your DD is acting out when she's living in a household where Mum is scared of doing stuff in case it "upsets" Dad?

Why on earth do you think lines on a perfume bottle are going to make any difference, to your 13 y/o who screams and punches things when she doesn't get her own way?

You could instead have a think about the effect on your DD1 of seeing those lines and the levels of perfume in the bottles dropping over time. It will be a reminder of the fact that she can't have anything of her own without it being taken by her sister, and that no adult is stepping in to stop this. That her sister gets to behave as badly as she wants, and if it impacts DD1 then she just has to put up with it.

At age 16 I'd be surprised if she weren't counting the days and praying to get into Uni so that she could move out and finally have a private space of her own.

Again, your DD2 needs counselling and you need to put a lock on your DD1's door. I'll revise my earlier point about parental responsibility and amend that to say that you need to tell your H that if he's away for 9 months of the year then he's not getting the brunt of this, so she needs counselling.

Well in that case you phone the Police

Stealing at this age is still communication, there is something deeper going on than just being a " brat " <hate that> sometimes related to a control issue.

I would urge you to seek some therapy from a specialist in girls with neurodiversity, this is not typical behaviour and she needs help first to determine the why over automatic punishment.

You won't get anywhere until you understand why she is doing this.

You are happy with your H and there is no tension, but you don't want to make him mad by getting your DD2 into counselling. If there's no tension and you're happy then why aren't you pushing for the best interests of your child, especially given that he's not her father?

Exactly, it's all very passive and like OP has no choice but to be a victim who can't possibly change the situation.

I'd also question the logic of being a SAHM to two teenagers when your husband is controlling you can't even buy a lock for a door without worrying about "making him mad".

But then again I wouldn't be married to someone I didn't see for nine months of the year and who clearly didn't give a shit about my kids to begin with, so who am I to judge? lol.

You have set yourself and DD1 up as passive victims of DD2 whom you are perceiving as the black sheep and scape-goat. You put lines on perfume booties to catch her out for ‘stealing’ it but do nothing practical to stop her. You will not see to her phone or protect her. You will not get her and yourself counselling - maybe your GP could get it for you free.

This doesn't make sense.

Your DD1 is scared of your DD2 and you don't know how to get your DD2 to stop stealing things, so your answer is to help your DD1 mark lines on her perfumes - why? So that it's extra obvious when her sister has helped herself?

You are happy with your H and there is no tension, but you don't want to make him mad by getting your DD2 into counselling. If there's no tension and you're happy then why aren't you pushing for the best interests of your child, especially given that he's not her father?

Your DD2 needs counselling and boundaries. Your DD1 needs a lock on her bedroom door (you can have a spare key, or a digi-lock which works on a code to ensure you are able to get in as well). Your H needs to be told that it's not up to him whether your children have counselling or not, as he is not their parent.

I feel most sorry for your DD1 in all of this - she's being terrorised in her own home and you are doing nothing to protect her.

@applebananagraphs ,

’The gentle ones I have tried to some extent before and doesn't work, and the punitive ones leads to backlash which negatively affects both dd1 and I.’

But you have to put up with a little short term backlash before she adjusts to the new routines. It will be so much easier long term.

So you take her phone (or control it using an app) and the more she kicks off, the more screen time she loses, and the more extra chores she gets. And, if she refuses to do the chores, her phone gets replaced with a ‘dumb’ phone until she realises that she cannot win by misbehaving.

At the moment SHE is parenting YOU, but not in a good way! If you take her phone, it is you getting the consequence, so modifying your behaviour to give her unlimited phone time.

Can’t you see this is very destructive?

@applebananagraphs You might’ve missed my question earlier, does any of the advice given so far feel helpful to you? You have said again that you have no idea what to do but I can see a lot of advice here from gentle to punitive. Is none of it feeling like an avenue to explore?

Why are you a SAHM with teens?

Shut down the phone account, she can keep the useless device. Do it now.

Her brain is being adversely affected by this addiction. If it was a booze addiction would you keep supplying it??