Am at a loss to how to deal with 13 yo stealing

There needs to be listening, an "in house" questions and answers, then flexibility from all sides.

Once social services step in, the child is gone for good.
You would never get your child back in a way that would show any improvement.

Sorry, I have zero time for social services.
Rotherham
Huddersfield
Rochdale
All failed social services.

She could be bi-polar (at the risk of being shot down for a MN diagnosis) sounds similar behaviour to my DGC, were there any signs growing up that she tried to control situations and could mood change quite quickly OP? speak to CAMS.

It is not impossible to take her phone.

You are the main parent at home, your daughter is clearly unhappy, some family/individual therapy is vital for everyone.
If your husband doesn't want to be involved, then that's his issue but you have to do what is best for you and your children. (Obviously recognise it's tricky if he's the earner.....)

Social services would step in then. I would only say call the police if she is out of control violent and is damaging property. Then it would be appropriate.

By calling the police, daughter might just walk right out.
Then what?

Although they did have borstals and corporal punishment in those days so obviously not all children behaved perfectly.

This is only "typical teenage behaviour" in the western world. No 13yr old living in Africa and a lot of Asia countries would ever ever be like this. Are they not considered teenagers? This just goes to show it's the new western world that is ruining kids because I'm pretty sure when kids had to "yes sir" and "yes ma'am" their parents, this behaviour rarely existed and yet when discipline was taken away from parents, there arose these new "teenage behaviours".

This poor woman should not be getting terrorised by her own kid of all people. Package her up and ship her off to Africa, I promise you a changed daughter in 6mths.

dd2 sounds troubled and unhappy and even, maybe bored. A 13 year old needs to leave the house at some point. If she rarely goes out, what does she do in her free time? Why does a 13 year old need an array of perfumes? I get the feeling you are all cooped up in a house which has become a battleground.

p.s. the phone needs to go somehow. Change the wifi password, stop paying for it if nothing else. if she criticises your cooking she does not get dinner. etc Boundaries need to be in place here. But this must all be done calmly and with communication.

There’s something going on and if you want to know what, your DD needs to see a professional. Your H thinking it’s a waste of money is an attitude that will hurt his daughter’s development. If she continues on this path it could turn out a lot more expensive.

Please get your child some professional support.

Turn the WiFi off.
when did these issues start ?I imagine there are serious underlying issues that have led to this.

I would warn her that if she doesn't stop misbehaving I will cancel her phone contract. I woukd give her a date by which this must happen. The phone is a reward not an entitlement. I would put locks on the bedroom doors.

I had a very similar situation with my now 12 year old daughter as soon as she hit secondary school.
I am always fair with my consequences and warn her before i apply whatever consquence, listen to her even though I may not agree I allow her to have her say, i remain calm and very matter of fact i.e i have asked you twice to stay out of your brothers room and twice you have choosen to ignore me so now im going to reduce your internet time i previously warned you of the consequences........something along those lines.

I don't like having to do it but I also need her to learn that her action have consequences now and as she grows into young adult.

She is always telling me her friends are allowed this and that all the time but my response to this simple they are not my child and I do not want my child out til 11pm.

My advice is this....sit her down calmly and privately give her the chance to tell you what is going on with her if she chooses to dismiss this or tell you everything is fine don't push but inform her that as from now this is how things will be and outline your strategy......inform her that her behaviour is no longer going to tolerated if she dosent like your dinner she dosent eat them, if she refuses to ask permission for other skin care or perfume then lock your doors so she cannot have access......if her behaviour should escalate to physical violence then you have no choice but to call the police......make sure you Inform her that should she choose this path these are the consequences of her behaviour.

Hope this helps.

It'll learn her make or break

You aren’t really parenting her at all are you? And your older DD is scared of her?

Time to take her phone/money/ privileges away and call police if she is violent.

I was terrorised in similar ways by my brother while my parents found every excuse not to deal with his abusive behaviours, much as you’re doing here, OP.

I’m no contact with my dad and low contact with my mum after 13 years of zero contact with her. I have no respect or affection for either parent, and it’s entirely their fault.

Start being the parent and stop letting your younger daughter ruin your elder daughters life.

The OP clearly has no interest whatsoever in sorting this situation out. It’s excuse after excuse for not dealing with the very obvious issues.

Poor kids.
DD1 is being terrorised by her sister and not being protected by her parents.
DD2 is SCREAMING for help and her parents are too inept and lazy (“not practical” means too much hassle) to bother.

She's 13.

Take all her stuff sell it at a car boot sale give her the cash and kick her out.

You've basically described my 13 yo girl, but I think it's either an attention thing or unhappy as I think the same with my daughter, I need to try to focus 1 on 1 with her

Going to be blunt here. Your DD1 sounds like she is in crisis and needs help. You being too afraid of DH to ask for help for your child is ineffective parenting. You being too afraid of your child to get her phone off her and teach her that her behaviour has consequences is also ineffective parenting. Who is the adult here? Your family has no effective leadership.

Please do consider seeking specialist psychologist advice & help. I guess the first port of call will be the GP and/or other voluntary, local group. It seems "we" all need help it must be oppressive all round. Cannot be right and I'm sure specialist help is available. Good luck.

When did she get the phone?

Absolutely refer her to mental health services. Wouldn't give two dick as what DH thinks seeing as he is barely there.

You need to create come consequences for her. I would honestly take her phone away and tell her she won't get it back until she treats the family and home with respect. If you are very concerned that she will break stuff I would put everything valuable away. For everything she destroys she will be adding a day to not having it.

Surely you have access to her money or where she gets it from. If she takes thing the money comes from her pocket money.

She is doing this because there are no consequences. You need to establish consequences.

That is your answer right there really

Do you think maybe DD is neurodivergent and its went undiagnosed?

My best friend since high school was constantly having similar problems and reacting pretty much the same way all the way through her teens. It was only when she had a child herself years later, that she was referred herself for ADHD as her child has this, and she was better educated on the symptoms. My friend was diagnosed aged 30 and suddenly she said her behaviour growing up made perfect sense.

Its not an excuse, but it can make you more impulsive and explosive when you don't get your way. The feelings are difficult to navigate and get increasingly harder into teens when hormones are also involved.