Have you taught at a private school?

Yup, this. Best teacher I ever had was a technology teacher who'd trained as an engineer, then run the family electronics/engineering firm before a career change in his 40s. His practical knowledge, and industry experience, were phenomenal. His lack of a formal teaching qualification didn't prevent him from teaching to a high standard, reflected by the excellent results from his students.

I work in a state school. The worst teacher I've ever met couldn't teach or cope with the demands of the job so left to teach in a local prep which has an amazing reputation(& associated cost). Its astounding that people pay to have this lady teach their kids!

Have you asked her where she wants to go? I went to a private secondary school. It was awful. I didn’t want to go, obviously I wanted to go with all my friends from primary to the local (very good) high school. Instead I was taken away from my close knit community every morning to the city where I knew no one, had trouble settling in, never really did fit in. The teachers were all dinosaurs, all completely uninspiring, boring af, we had to go on a long bus journey every PE lesson, (and wear these stupid embarrassing, poncy big pants for it!) whereas the local school was surrounded by sports fields. Obviously we all used to roll our skirts up at the waist and the head teacher would come round and put her hand down our skirts to unroll them (I appreciate this was the early 2000s) but still, I think some private schools think they can do what they want, have an attitude of “untouchable” about them (hence the multiple cases of abuse well documented in boarding schools). IMO teachers who teach at state schools do it because they’re passionate about it, private school teachers do it because it’s better money. Uninspired teachers = uninspired students, which equals very average grades. I got out of there with a bunch of ok GCSE’s and went straight to a state sixth form where I actually realised learning could be interesting and started getting As. Visit all your options and listen to what your dc wants. They’re the one that’s going to be experiencing it and sometimes, in this situation they know best. Even my parents acknowledge now that it was a mistake and I’d have done much better and been much happier if I’d gone to the local state school like I wanted

@Mia85 - technically true but in practice pretty rare nowadays.

I have taught in two different independent schools since I had DC and they went to my schools. My current school is brilliant. Really well qualified and enthusiastic teachers in every subject, great co curricular provision and smaller class sizes. Absolutely worth it and I don’t think I’d still be teaching if I were in the state sector now although I started out there.

dn goes to JAGS and is thriving. It is competitive but in a way that’s inclusive - the kids all tend to drive each other.

I would probably choose St Dunstan's then

Perhaps worth looking at Kingsdale as they are meant to have a great art department. It’s a huge school but caters well to your DD’s profile. Not sure where you are exactly and how far from the grammars Townley/Newstead etc all good for that profile too.

Go private

@WiseLemonFox I have a daughter who has gone through Sydenham Girls (the state one), with GCSEs all at 7-9 and now loving the sixth form in Year 13.

I also, coincidentally, have a Year 11 child at a private school - though not a local one. She's got a government music place at a boarding school. She moved in year 10 so has experienced both Sydenham Girls and the independent sector.

DD2's view, having experienced both sides, is that she wouldn't pay for the teaching at a private school just for the sake of it as she thinks it is definitely not better.

There are nice things - small classes, and a swimming pool, and lots of text books to go round, but in general moving made her realise just HOW good sydenham was, particularly for maths and science - where she found the transition extremely easy - so much for state school children being behind.

DD2 is high ability - more so than her sister, who is bright enough but had to work for her grades. Sydenham stretched her with lots of extras and is now offering further maths as well as triple science to the top of the cohort. I think she would have got great GCSEs there. DD1 did a lot of debate which really helped her confidence and is a strength of the school.

Friends of mine who have had kids at Sydenham high are ok with it - but not wowed. Many move for sixth form as it is small...JAGS is a different ball game - more academic, high-quality music etc.

My caveat is that if your child is very musical and wants that as a career, don't go for Sydenham Girls at the moment as it has become a bit of a weak point, which is why DD2 left.

If she hadn't been offered her dream school with a massive government chunk of funding, we'd have moved her to Prendergast, where a space opened up for her.

Otherwise, Sydenham is a great place to be.

People don't realise that teachers at private schools don't even need a teaching qualification to teach unlike state schools where you need your PGCE

I thought that QTS was also not a requirement to teaching academy or free schools? i.e. the majority of state secondaries don't have a formal requirement of QTS either. No doubt lots of private and academy teachers have it anyway.

I did part of my training in one. I saw some good teaching, don't get me wrong, but a big advantage they had was less low level distribution and the kids seemed to be more driven. I don't know if the school had fostered it or if they came to them like that but it made it easier to teach them effectively. I don't think the teaching was necessarily better in and of itself but the atmosphere certainly was.

My cousin teaches a STEM subject in one of the schools you’ve mentioned. She rates it very highly and they get excellent results. Small classes, well behaved kids who want to learn, plentiful resources. Her own kids also attend the school.

The difference should be clear if you visit. If you can’t see the difference with a state school after your visit it probably isn’t right, it won’t be a good cost benefit for you.

I would say if your kid thrives on pressure and competitiveness - JAGS is great. Not sure that Harris ED is all that nice, local teachers dont rate it. Sydenham has nice teachers but it's obviously academically a more mixed intake than Sydenham high. If your child needs to be surrounded by high achieving kids to follow - Sydenham High, if your kid is happy to follow their own tune - Sydenham is nice enough.

Doesnt it depend on your state alternative? Is it Charter North or Harris East Dulwich? What is your child' personality - how competitive are they (if they arent JAGS aint for them), do you want them to go to a mixed or single sex school. I know teachers who teach at Sydenham and send their kids there - they like it. St Dunstans seems to be mainly a school for kids who dont have a good alternative e.g. have boys, live in Forest hill and dont want to send theirs there. It's not just about private v state.

I had a similar conversation with friends who have taught at a number of the top private schools in the UK. In their opinion, the teaching is no better than it would be in a state school, the advantage is all of the extra curricular activities, on site, which makes life easier for parents.

Depends on your reasons for doing it, on the school you have chosen and your child.
All mine are at private and I would not hesitate again. We have gone for pastoral well being over high achieving academics , but all are thriving in their own way and because they are happy, they are achieving well academically . They have a confidence that I definitely never had at their age (state educated) and they are not allowed to coast. They have been gently stretched without hot housing and have found their ‘thing’ whether it’s sports, art, drama etc . The extra curricular and school trips are also excellent. A good indicator is to look at the schools value add. Schools that only take the top 5% of kids will always get good results but they usually have a relatively low value add. A middle performing private school that takes a wider range of ability may actually be a better value for money school as their value add is higher given the ability of the pupils they take versus the results they get at GCSE and A level.
also, most teachers have their kids at my kids schools - the staff discount is a great way of retaining staff

@Stirmish

People don't realise that teachers at private schools don't even need a teaching qualification to teach unlike state schools where you need your PGCE

I completely agree with you that there are many brilliant state schools, but I do think that there are instances where someone can be a fantastic teacher without a PGCE. One of the best teachers any of my kids ever had was someone who had come from a professional background in the field they taught. People can come from a variety of educational backgrounds and make excellent teachers.

That said if I lived in certain parts of London or other cities I would think seriously about sending my DC to an independent / private school

People don't realise that teachers at private schools don't even need a teaching qualification to teach unlike state schools where you need your PGCE

There are so many brilliant state schools around that work just as well as a private school

The more expensive boarding schools like Eton or Marlborough college. Now those I would send my DC to because they're a whole different level

Lots of families set up trust funds in perpetuity so all the future offspring can go to a top boarding school no matter how much they earn

So that they're surrounded by their own kind as it were. It's not even really about the education but the lifestyle and that they get the confidence and caught up in the wave of knowing they'll get into a decent uni and just knowing how to navigate their world

I'm a governor at my children's (former) private school. A lot of our teachers do send their kids there, in fact the discount is a major perk for them. But I think with schools, what's right is always case by case, school by school and child by child. There's no one answer to this.

Depends which private school - you need to do some research.... also, it depends on the child - some private schools dont suit the child. In ours, the teachers send their children to the same school - we like the school, its pretty good.