To be absolutely sick of excuses being made for men's disgusting sexual behaviour? Trigfer warning. Hugh Edwards sentencing.

And? People don’t need to know the ins and outs of how the law works to know this being the result of such a hideous crime is unacceptable and to be angry about it.

Strangely I had an abusive father and a rather traumatic childhood, yet I'm not a paedophile.
And judges who don't dish out appropriate punishment for pedos just tells me they themselves are probably of the same mindset. I mean why is his mental health a consideration and not that of his victims? Why does he not get sent to prison in case he kills himself while his victims (children) have a life sentence?
I think prison is too good for paedophiles, ship them all to an island and leave them to it.

No, if I was a researcher in that area I'm sure talking to victims would be high on the priority list.

The legal system isn't about vengeance for victims though. The crown takes action and the focus is on deterring crime and preventing reoffending.

I was stating facts. I don't see what this bar is that you alleged I'm lowering.

It’s not possible to talk over someone on a written thread. And I am most definitely not a man. Sorry if my posts have made you angry, but you should direct that at those with high up decision making capabilities, not a mid level cog like myself.

To be honest, this sentence is actually quite punitive for a first offence. The vast majority of people convicted of this type of behaviour get a community order not a suspended sentence.

I know someone (not a friend or family member) in the community I lived in who got 18 months. Not suspended. And that was his only offence to date. Not recent though.

Nope, that's you being patronising.

Most people understand the sentencing guidelines and are questioning if they're fit for purpose.

If you are actually a lawyer, you would know that at least 50% of 'mitigation' is codswallop put forward by the client.

I've spent plenty of time in court. I have issues around sentencing guidelines, personal interpretetation by some judges/magistrates and the behaviour and conduct of the police and CPS.

It is something i've studied, and it's something i have been in touch with various politicians about over the years.

There is an issue with consistency - and i know a lot of people's answer to that is minimum sentencing, but i don't agree with that either - and the judiciary and politicians would do well to listen to people who are not happy with a whole raft of recent sentences over a range of crimes.

Starmer, as ex-DPP must be aware of this and would do well to get his new prisons minister or others or a team to start talking openly about the reason some things are why they are.

And this thread is literally triggered by the perception of leniency of this sentence. Of course we're going to talk about it.

Or are you surprised a lot of posters didn't all jump in going "gosh, that's a harsh sentence!"

The government could sort this out.

They could bring in tougher prison sentences. They could do that quickly. We know that from recent events. Starmer and Lammy don't know what a woman is so they're hardly likely to care because kids are seen as inextricably linked to women.

They could give over female prisons to men. We hardly need any female prison spaces. Women rarely commit violent crimes or sexual abuse. Most female prisoners need support and help with their mental health. Not locking up.

They clamped down on the rioters very quickly indeed because it suited them. Even locking people up for tweets. For women and kids, absolutely nothing happens.

Women on Mumsnet are always being berated for pointing out men's toxic behaviour. Apparently we all hate men. Yet Andrew Tate is lauded by many men, and we all know what a danger he is.

Men hold the reins of power and they do not give a fuck. Our worth is so much less in their eyes that even male surgeons kill more women. 32 per cent more women die at the hands of male surgeons than female ones. They're supposed to be saving our lives.

Imagine if that was the other way round, there would be an outcry. There would be calls for female surgeons to be banned. But it's okay for men to keep killing us both professionally or personally, answer killing and abusing our kids too.

The only answer is for women to seek power. Political, judicial, corporate, financial and put our agenda firmly at the top instead of women and kids always getting the shitty end of the stick.

Well that or armed struggle!

I wonder if Farage and knobheads of his ilk have anything to say about this “two tier sentencing”?

There have been plenty of studies on abusers who have been caught, how many more abusers do they need? How many more victims should there be until someone decides they have enough research to take appropriate action.

Abuse doesn't comform to one narrative, abusers are from all walks of life with all sorts of backgrounds. How many more have to suffer because our laws are not good enough to protect the future victims of the abusers?

There are lots of people on this thread who are rightly angry, but seemingly angrier because they think raising points in mitigation is the same as saying 'he shouldn't be punished because of xyz'.

Or who think judges just choose sentences according to what they think is right, when in fact there are usually guidelines that they follow, witth a range of sentences to choose from based on aggravating and mitigating factors.

It's the same as people who are furious that alleged murderers/abusers etc have lawyers to argue for them. It's how law works.

Great, then talk to victims, they have better insight than anyone and will be far more honest than the abusers. Except that’s not the answer you want is it?

There's lots of historical SA crime that's been successfully brought to justice

If anyone has experienced this then please know it CAN still be brought to justice with custodial sentences being applied

Just thought it worth a mention

That's one perspective.

Another would be that a nice, long prison sentence makes it very clear 'where the boundaries are'. We, as a society, need to agree how we tackle this and that includes balancing punishment with root cause analysis/rehabilitation.

If you want to focus on the leniency of the sentence, you would be best off starting with sentencing guidelines. I do wonder how many of the people claiming to be outraged on this thread will actually take the time to sit in a Court and watch some sentencing hearings, complete with sentencing remarks and breakdown, or write to their MP, or campaign for reform?

the will isn't there.
And that is a problem. But that doesn't mean that prison officers should come on here and sneeringly tell us we don't know what we're talking about. I don't need to work in the prison system to know it is hideously broken.

I don't need to work in the prison system to have been aghast at the interview with one of the early-released last week describing the conditions inside, including rats running around freely.

etc etc.

This was a serious crime - not only perpetrated by Edwards - that has resulted in very real harm to untold numbers of children. The fact that we don't agree with his sentence, notwithstanding the acute problem with prisons, doesn't need to be sneered at.

I notice none of you prison officers or magistrates here have engaged with my 2 posts now pointing out that you needn't be surprised at people's shock and anger because your (industry not persons posting here) communication is pretty crap.

@Oldseagull

I propose a move back to physical castration.

Was it ever a thing?

So is the claim of childhood abuse taken into account when it can't be proven?

It literally says in the post ‘women do, no one disputes that’ so I’m not sure why, yet again, the fact that women commit crimes too needs pointed out in a thread about excuses for men’s appalling behaviour.

No the concept doesn’t need to be introduced. It’s whataboutery and othering and it detracts and minimises from the topic
in hand. Happens on every thread at the mere mention of horrible men.

I propose a move back to physical castration.

Once someone has shown themselves as having a sexual desire towards children it should happen.

It's time to bring the eunuchs back.

The way I see it, if you want to prevent abuse then you have to understand it.

If you make a blanket statement of 'all abusers are evil' then you miss an opportunity to understand the crimes and find ways to prevent further offending/offending by other people.

It's a horrible area, but some people are involved in getting abusers to see why what they did was wrong, what their path to abuse was and how they could have used different moments to stop, what they could do in future to control themselves and not reoffend.

People saying what could be mitigating circumstances for sex offending. I would say if you've had an abusive or dysfunctional upbringing, you're less likely to know where those boundaries are. Not everyone with that upbringing would offend and it doesn't make it ok. But it probably makes it more likely.

Other things like mental health issues or substance issues/cognitive problems. I'd say they're relevant.

If you just say 'they're all evil, lock them up and throw away the key' then a)you've got a massive prison population and b)you're not learning anything about how to prevent offending.

What we really need is way more resource going into the police to deal with these offences, both as a deterrent and to stop people before they progress through severity of offences.

I’d say the same to you, you come across as incredibly smug and patronising on this thread, as if no one else knows what they’re talking about, as if they’re wrong to be angry and with very little concern for victims.

Anyway, I’m not going to engage with nonce defenders any further, it’s pointless.

Not going to happen. There's no money!

Well that just leads on to my 'if women ruled the world rant...