Page 11 | Fiancé has agreed to be a Guarantor - I’m not happy

workworkbloodywork · 2024-09-15T18:02:49+00:00

Not sure if I’m being highly unreasonable or fully entitled to be majorly fucked off with him. His sister has asked him to be a guarantor on a rental that they want to upsize to as the partner has recently gone self employed. he initially asked if I would be too but I was overseas at the time as I asked for us to discuss it when I was home. he then said that we weren’t needed as they found someone. That then fell through and so they asked if just DF would do it. Again said let’s discuss when I’m home. ive found out today that they have a moving date and have been packing. Turns out DF has agreed to do it without any communication to me. so YABU - it’s family, you should think twice and just sign to dotted line asap or YANBU - as an engaged couple, decisions that affect your family unit should be discussed at length before concluding on a decision together.

Crikeyalmighty · 15/09/2024 21:29

@Icanttakethisanymore not true about 12 months- I've had a 2 year fixed term ( and rent) on our current one - just about to renew again for a year. My friend has a 3 year fixed term and fixed rent on a recent rental .

BlueBottles12 · 15/09/2024 21:28

Would never do this. The DS made their decisions and her partner decided to give up a steady income and go self employed. They need to own their decisions regarding the implications of that.

Derwent01 · 15/09/2024 21:28

soupfiend · 15/09/2024 21:26

Possibly, but then all loans would be in her name, financial arrangements arent joint. He wouldnt be on the deeds, so she owns the property herself. Not very joint but then she might be ok with that. Can she afford a property on her own, or woujld she need his income to get the multiples to afford the property?

That could work if they're not married, if they then marry, then she is automatically financially associated with him even if the mortgage is in her name or accounts in separate names.

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fair points

samanthablues · 15/09/2024 21:27

you sound very controlling OP, you didn't signed anything ok? Take a deep breath. Any issues it's your BF that's going to have to deal with them, not you, his choice- his responsibility. He may ask for your opinion and that's normal but ultimately he doesn't need your permission to be a guarantor to his sister. If the BIL falls short on rent your BF will be chased by the landlord, then he'll need to pay but you don't give him a dime, do let him know beforehand.

PyongyangKipperbang · 15/09/2024 21:27

Have you sat down and done the maths with him?

Point out that if they dont pay HE (not both of you, just him) will have to pay their rent as well as whatever bills he pays, and that you will not subsidise this by paying more shared bills so as he agreed this, HE pays all his commitments.

soupfiend · 15/09/2024 21:26

Derwent01 · 15/09/2024 21:13

but then would you not just use the wifes name on the mortage etc ?

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Possibly, but then all loans would be in her name, financial arrangements arent joint. He wouldnt be on the deeds, so she owns the property herself. Not very joint but then she might be ok with that. Can she afford a property on her own, or woujld she need his income to get the multiples to afford the property?

That could work if they're not married, if they then marry, then she is automatically financially associated with him even if the mortgage is in her name or accounts in separate names.

AngelicKaty · 15/09/2024 21:22

gardenmusic · 15/09/2024 19:29

This is entirely the wrong time to be a guarantor - when someone has given up the security of an employed role to be self employed. Most self employed businesses fail.
If you have joint finances with your fiance, I would be dismantling them. He wants to take the risk, then the risk is his, not yours. His family do not drag you under.
If he gets caught out and needs to pay for them, he takes an extra job, so that you are not suffering because of his unwise decision, you are not covering him, while he covers them.
Never guarantor unless you can afford to lose the money.

EXACTLY THIS!

Hedgewitch123 · 15/09/2024 21:20

AngelicKaty · 15/09/2024 21:19

It's not sad she wouldn't - she's absolutely right to be reluctant. I wouldn't act as guarantor for ANYONE for ANY REASON - only a fool would do so. It can destroy family relationships forever. No-one plans on not being able to pay their rent and stiffing their relatives when asking for a "favour" as huge as this, but anyone can lose their income with little warning and find themselves in the position of defaulting on their rent.
I volunteered for Citizens Advice for 10 years and advised on three separate cases of guarantors being called upon to pay their family members' rents - none of the guarantors really understood the undertaking they were making when they signed the guarantee and none of them could afford to pay their relatives' rents in addition to their own when called upon to do so and they were all devastated to realise they were on the legal hook. The two children and one grand-child involved in these cases no longer have a relationship with their mums and grand-mother (the guarantors) even though these women were being pursued for THEIR rent!
Advice to everyone: NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, AGREE TO BE A GUARANTOR FOR ANYONE (unless you have an endless pot of money and don't mind giving it away).

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Amen.

AngelicKaty · 15/09/2024 21:19

PrettyPines · 15/09/2024 19:10

I would absolutely do this for family. What's the chance of them not paying their rent?
Renting is so bloody hard, the market is absolute bullshit. They probably didn't have time to wait and your fiancé wanted to help. It's sad you wouldn't. Unless they're usually unreliable with rent which I assume they're not because they wouldn't have been eligible for the property with past arrears.

It's not sad she wouldn't - she's absolutely right to be reluctant. I wouldn't act as guarantor for ANYONE for ANY REASON - only a fool would do so. It can destroy family relationships forever. No-one plans on not being able to pay their rent and stiffing their relatives when asking for a "favour" as huge as this, but anyone can lose their income with little warning and find themselves in the position of defaulting on their rent.
I volunteered for Citizens Advice for 10 years and advised on three separate cases of guarantors being called upon to pay their family members' rents - none of the guarantors really understood the undertaking they were making when they signed the guarantee and none of them could afford to pay their relatives' rents in addition to their own when called upon to do so and they were all devastated to realise they were on the legal hook. The two children and one grand-child involved in these cases no longer have a relationship with their mums and grand-mother (the guarantors) even though these women were being pursued for THEIR rent!
Advice to everyone: NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, AGREE TO BE A GUARANTOR FOR ANYONE (unless you have an endless pot of money and don't mind giving it away).

Ukhotelsareshit · 15/09/2024 21:18

I am a guarantor for a friend. It’s a small flat and her lease is renewed every year and I have to re-sign. If it came to the worst case scenario and she defaulted on an entire 12 months rent, then yes, I could afford to pay it. It’s been 3-4 years and she hasn’t. I never even discussed this with my husband! I told him I’d done it, he said fine. End of.
I appreciate it depends on your financial situation but I don’t think I’d be getting divorced over it, unless we were truly skint.

Hedgewitch123 · 15/09/2024 21:18

Propertyshmoperty · 15/09/2024 21:03

Is it your property that is at risk if he is a guarantor? Does he have any claim on your property? Does he earn enough to cover their rent for several months if things go South? I wouldn't marry him until he was no longer a guarantor but in the meantime he can do what he likes at his own risk. Agree with others that he needs to get a monthly receipt of proof of paid rent payment so he doesn't get suprised with a 10 or 20k bill after several months of arrears.

Having said that my PIL and my DM have been guarantors for us for both our first rental and our first mortgage respectively. So appreciate when family can help out. (We never got into financial trouble so all was well)

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This 100%

Sparklywhiteteeth · 15/09/2024 21:16

I think thr issue here is a decision needed to be made and you didn’t know the urgency you kicked it into the long grass of discussion when you got home. Which clearly wasnt immediate. So he went ahead as you didn’t discuss it

the issue here is the lack of communication between you both.

godmum56 · 15/09/2024 21:14

GreatMistakes · 15/09/2024 19:56

I wouldn't be marrying him.

He took a big decision without you. You're lucky that being unmarried means you bear nine of the legal risk, only the knock on of him having to cough up for it. Which might mean a hit to joint funds or you losing disposable income to subsidise him.

If you were married he would be making a decision that you would be legally liable for wothout your consent.

So I wouldn't be marrying him, it's that simple. I'm not sure where that leaves your relationship. If you are renting perhaps move home and give notice to the landlord to show him actions have consequences and you won't be walked over.

This.

Derwent01 · 15/09/2024 21:13

soupfiend · 15/09/2024 21:08

You clearly dont understand something as simple as credit worthiness. If he has a 20k debt sitting there that he needs to pay off, and OP and him want to apply for a mortgage together, it will get taken into account as a debt. That impacts on her, it impacts on her as she is financially associated with him if she has a joint account or joint finances in anyway, getting a loan for a sofa or car fo rexample

Its not just whether they're married or not either

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but then would you not just use the wifes name on the mortage etc ?

Hedgewitch123 · 15/09/2024 21:13

gardenmusic · 15/09/2024 19:29

This is entirely the wrong time to be a guarantor - when someone has given up the security of an employed role to be self employed. Most self employed businesses fail.
If you have joint finances with your fiance, I would be dismantling them. He wants to take the risk, then the risk is his, not yours. His family do not drag you under.
If he gets caught out and needs to pay for them, he takes an extra job, so that you are not suffering because of his unwise decision, you are not covering him, while he covers them.
Never guarantor unless you can afford to lose the money.

This all the way.

gardenmusic · 15/09/2024 21:13

I’d question why her son couldn’t get a job which earned him at least £900 / month, tbh. My mum has been my guarantor, she didn’t have lots of spare money but equally I’d have got any job anywhere to avoid her paying my rent. It seems to me if you trust the person not to be a selfish twat, it’s not an issue.

This is you though - she cannot make him get a job - he could develop a health problem and not be able to get a job. He could just decide he's not getting a job - it is too big a risk unless you can afford to write off the money you have guaranteed.

Derwent01 · 15/09/2024 21:12

workworkbloodywork · 15/09/2024 20:25

No he does not have the savings or investments to be able to potentially wave goodbye to thousands of pounds with only an eye roll as a consequence.

as for getting out of it, I don’t see how he could without it a massively affecting his relationship or mine with them and this having a harmonious future family relationship. it’s a little like putting on a condom once she’s pregnant!

the fact he has supported family members financially frequently in the past both equally made me adore how supportive he is of those around him but also concerned for our financial security in the future.

at least legally the debt is not yours shared

PolePrince55 · 15/09/2024 21:12

I've been asked loads to be guarantor and said no on all occasions ... I was right to say no.
People need a guarantor when on paper it loads like they might not be able to pay up.

I'd never do it EVER & ID NEVER ASK ANYONE TO DO IT FOR ME 😣

ReadingSoManyThreads · 15/09/2024 21:09

ChampagneLassie · 15/09/2024 21:05

But OP isn’t the guarantor her DF is so no impact on her. Mymarrying skmeine doesn’t make you liable their debts either. I’m a 40 something financial services professional who has been a landlord, homeowner and now rented last 10 years.im not naive i just view this very differently. I’ve helped friends out of tight spots because I generally try to help people if I can, if it were my sibling or my DP sibling I wouldn’t even question it provided they weren’t feckless

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Then with your work background, you should know that acting as guarantor can affect them getting a mortgage, which impacts the OP. It can also impact the OP once they're married and if debt it called in, their joint finances will be negatively impacted as the OP has clearly stated her DF cannot afford to pay his sister's rent if she can't.

It's also not about them not being feckless, businesses can fail, without being feckless, people can lose their jobs without being feckless. Even financially responsible people can fall on unexpected hard financial times.

soupfiend · 15/09/2024 21:08

ChampagneLassie · 15/09/2024 21:05

But OP isn’t the guarantor her DF is so no impact on her. Mymarrying skmeine doesn’t make you liable their debts either. I’m a 40 something financial services professional who has been a landlord, homeowner and now rented last 10 years.im not naive i just view this very differently. I’ve helped friends out of tight spots because I generally try to help people if I can, if it were my sibling or my DP sibling I wouldn’t even question it provided they weren’t feckless

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You clearly dont understand something as simple as credit worthiness. If he has a 20k debt sitting there that he needs to pay off, and OP and him want to apply for a mortgage together, it will get taken into account as a debt. That impacts on her, it impacts on her as she is financially associated with him if she has a joint account or joint finances in anyway, getting a loan for a sofa or car fo rexample

Its not just whether they're married or not either

Rewis · 15/09/2024 21:08

@ReadingSoManyThreads or 6 months advance payment whatever it was. Tried to solve the problem with money but that didn't work. Either because of the rules/laws/policies or due to cautiousness. Thankfully owning a property got us the flat in the end. Thankfully that city has been the only place with the requirements for guarantors and have managed to rent hassle free elsewhere.

Mrsttcno1 · 15/09/2024 21:06

I think it depends on the people and the risk level. I would do it in a heartbeat for my sister because I know she would be able to pay it and I also know that if for whatever reason she lost her job then they have savings and also things they could sell to get the money before it would actually ever come to me, the risk of me ever actually having to pay would be so minimal and it would just be a box ticking exercise to allow them to get the rental.

But I wouldn’t in a million years do it for my BIL, neither would my husband, because he is famously shit with money, spends first and thinks later, and I know without a doubt that we’d end up having to bail him out very quickly and repeatedly.

So it depends on the person and the situation. I’m actually quite surprised he’s allowed to be a guarantor without being a home owner himself as I know that is usually one of the conditions.

DrunkTinkerbell40s · 15/09/2024 21:06

I'm surprised with how many people have said they would do this, I don't think I'd do it for anyone apart from my kids, who are financial dependent on me.

ChampagneLassie · 15/09/2024 21:05

ReadingSoManyThreads · 15/09/2024 20:58

And you come across as very naïve. Being a guarantor is a massive financial risk and it absolutely CAN have an impact on the OP. As a guarantor, you can be taken to court for tens of thousands of rent arrears and damage costs. It's irrelevant that it's for family, family can screw over family, it happens every day.

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But OP isn’t the guarantor her DF is so no impact on her. Mymarrying skmeine doesn’t make you liable their debts either. I’m a 40 something financial services professional who has been a landlord, homeowner and now rented last 10 years.im not naive i just view this very differently. I’ve helped friends out of tight spots because I generally try to help people if I can, if it were my sibling or my DP sibling I wouldn’t even question it provided they weren’t feckless

Propertyshmoperty · 15/09/2024 21:03

workworkbloodywork · 15/09/2024 20:54

We do live together in a property that I have a mortgage on.

I believe that he does not understand all the ins and outs. I certainly do not, as it is not something I have been involved with previously so had bliss ignorance to it and hence asking for us to discuss once I was home and to give us time to research the implications of being needed.

I just feel like I’ve always made him feel like a priority within our relationship (he too has massively supported me through many things in our relationship and has been thoroughly deserving only this) but this has made me feel completely sidelined, as though my opinion and perspective and support isn’t valued and that I’m bottom of the pile.

I totally understand he wanted to support his sibling and that he thought it wouldn’t impact me but that thought had no foundation of research to support it.

Is it your property that is at risk if he is a guarantor? Does he have any claim on your property? Does he earn enough to cover their rent for several months if things go South? I wouldn't marry him until he was no longer a guarantor but in the meantime he can do what he likes at his own risk. Agree with others that he needs to get a monthly receipt of proof of paid rent payment so he doesn't get suprised with a 10 or 20k bill after several months of arrears.

Having said that my PIL and my DM have been guarantors for us for both our first rental and our first mortgage respectively. So appreciate when family can help out. (We never got into financial trouble so all was well)