Page 10 | Fiancé has agreed to be a Guarantor - I’m not happy

Livingtothefull · 15/09/2024 21:55

The best definition I have heard of for a guarantor is 'an idiot with a pen'.

With several possible exceptions of course: if the guarantor is so financially secure they are confident they can deal with the consequences, and/or if they are 100% confident that the people they are guaranteeing are responsible and trustworthy.

None of that seems to apply here. Sorry but your DF's sister and her partner seem irresponsible and feckless. Why would they choose to take the risk of upsizing for a rental they basically can't afford, right after the partner has gone self-employed? Why wouldn't they at least get the rental approved beforehand while he was in paid work?

I think she has a cheek asking her DB for this help when she knows he himself is engaged and needs to plan for his own future. I also can't believe the effrontery of your DF in asking you to be his sister's guarantor. Really, I would think twice about your plans to marry him, not just because of the implications of this decision but because of the risk of any unilateral decisions he might make to support his needy family members, once your finances are intertwined.

juliaxxl80 · 15/09/2024 21:53

Icanttakethisanymore · 15/09/2024 19:46

whilst I would discuss this out of courtesy with my OH, the only way I’d ask ‘permission’ is if I couldn’t cover their rent myself in the event it all went wrong. If I could cover it personally, I wouldn’t be asking, I’d be informing.

Absolutely!

Rosscameasdoody · 15/09/2024 21:53

Coachvikki · 15/09/2024 21:47

For me it wouldn't really matter if I was guarantor or not, if my brother needed help with his rent I would just help him. So I don't see why the signed forms make any difference. What would you do, just see them kicked out?

It’s not a question of them being kicked out. It’s the risk that the guarantor doesn’t find out about arrears until they are substantial. Then they potentially have to come up with thousands of pounds that the landlord can legally pursue them for. The very fact that the couple need a guarantor in the first place is a red flag that they’ve been financially irresponsible in the past.

PrettyPickle · 15/09/2024 21:51

samanthablues · 15/09/2024 21:27

you sound very controlling OP, you didn't signed anything ok? Take a deep breath. Any issues it's your BF that's going to have to deal with them, not you, his choice- his responsibility. He may ask for your opinion and that's normal but ultimately he doesn't need your permission to be a guarantor to his sister. If the BIL falls short on rent your BF will be chased by the landlord, then he'll need to pay but you don't give him a dime, do let him know beforehand.

Edited

At no point has she said he needed her permission! But given this is her Fiancé, the man she is to spend the rest of her life with, his decisions now affect her emotionally, financially and their long-term wellbeing.

The fact he did not discuss this with her beforehand, does not bode well for the future. If they were planning to buy a home together, his commitment to be a guarantor, could effectively remove his income from the decision on how mcuh they can borrow.

At no point has she said she wouldn't have agreed but I think it was reasonable to be consulted and for them to make an informed decision between them and he has denied her that option. Clearly hasn't considered their relationship or financial future in his decision. He has been naive.

Talkwhilstyouwalk · 15/09/2024 21:48

Has he just put his name down? Or yours as well? I'd just his then that's fine as long as he has the means to cover it should there be an issue.....I can see where you are coming from to an extent, and my husband has given money to his sister before without much discussion which did annoy me a bit, but it was for a valid reason and from his earnings/personal savings, so fair enough really....

Rosscameasdoody · 15/09/2024 21:48

ChampagneLassie · 15/09/2024 20:55

Unless his sibling is a liability I wouldn’t even question it. For me this is what family is about and if I were DFand you started interrogating this it might make me reconsider you. DF is the gauarenter, NOT you. This has no impact on you. I just think you’ll come across as very selfish and mercenary

Of course it has an impact on her. They are living together and planning to marry. They will be financially linked and the consequences could be ruinous if this couple default. If anything the OP should be the one seriously reconsidering the relationship. He has steamed ahead without discussion or even consultation, and without properly researching the obligations and pitfalls of what is a very serious financial commitment. That’s a big red flag for their future together. It would be a deal breaker for me.

Coachvikki · 15/09/2024 21:47

For me it wouldn't really matter if I was guarantor or not, if my brother needed help with his rent I would just help him. So I don't see why the signed forms make any difference. What would you do, just see them kicked out?

Icanttakethisanymore · 15/09/2024 21:46

Emily1583 · 15/09/2024 20:58

It's going fook up your credit rating no matter what happens from now on. Really bad idea. I'd be fuming if this happened.

The that’s not true at all. If the tenant pays their rent it has no impact on your credit rating. Which is what happens, most if the time.

AngelicKaty · 15/09/2024 21:44

Kitkat1523 · 15/09/2024 19:52

I’ve seen it end in tears….my neighbour ended up owing 22 months of rent as her son lost his job 2 months into a tenancy….the rent was £900 a month….she couldn’t pay and the landlord started a claim on her own property after she had already got herself into debt …..which is basically what happens……if you’ve got a spare 10 - 20k then go for it…..otherwise think very carefully …..no matter how close the relationship

and we are not talking about homeless people…..we are talking about a family member wanting to upsize

Edited

Show quote history

Well said. I've seen it too. I'm not even surprised by the naivety of some of the commenters here - I've seen that too. 🙄

Kitkat1523 · 15/09/2024 21:44

Icanttakethisanymore · 15/09/2024 20:02

You can’t currently put a tenancy agreement in place for more than 12 months and you usually get an 6 month break clause, which obviously limits the downside. Also, the eventuality you described is incredibly unlikely and young people often need help so I’d rather take my chances and help a person I trusted, like my own child.

Show quote history

Yes you can….lots of posters saying the same….2 and 3 year tenancies …….agree highly unlikely…..but it can and does happen …..and if you haven’t got the funds to cover ….it can mean the guarantors home being at risk….if it was my child I would say , stay put until you in a position where you don’t need a guarantor…..or if it was a case of them being homeless then they could always come home…..my doors always open …..but I wouldn’t be a guarantor no way

skyfalldown · 15/09/2024 21:43

soupfiend · 15/09/2024 21:41

You are still liable for the rent for the entirety of the rental period. Or your mother would be if you wouldnt or couldnt pay

Dont you know this?

You should never make someone responsible financially for something without their permission, did she sign anything and understand what you had done?

Show quote history

There is no rental period and she didn't sign anything

Secradonugh · 15/09/2024 21:42

workworkbloodywork · 15/09/2024 20:54

We do live together in a property that I have a mortgage on.

I believe that he does not understand all the ins and outs. I certainly do not, as it is not something I have been involved with previously so had bliss ignorance to it and hence asking for us to discuss once I was home and to give us time to research the implications of being needed.

I just feel like I’ve always made him feel like a priority within our relationship (he too has massively supported me through many things in our relationship and has been thoroughly deserving only this) but this has made me feel completely sidelined, as though my opinion and perspective and support isn’t valued and that I’m bottom of the pile.

I totally understand he wanted to support his sibling and that he thought it wouldn’t impact me but that thought had no foundation of research to support it.

If you discussed it and said no, would he have gone ahead anyway or would he have 'let his sister down'? I feel that although you are in the right that you should have had a voice in the discussion he is also stuck in a no win situation. I would say he should have researched it all first. I did when I guaranteed. At no point did I consider not doing it, but I wanted to be prepared for the what ifs.

PyongyangKipperbang · 15/09/2024 21:41

samanthablues · 15/09/2024 21:27

you sound very controlling OP, you didn't signed anything ok? Take a deep breath. Any issues it's your BF that's going to have to deal with them, not you, his choice- his responsibility. He may ask for your opinion and that's normal but ultimately he doesn't need your permission to be a guarantor to his sister. If the BIL falls short on rent your BF will be chased by the landlord, then he'll need to pay but you don't give him a dime, do let him know beforehand.

Edited

When did people objecting to something their partner is doing being "controlling"? Seems like these days anyone saying "I am not happy about you doing this" is being controlling.

They are in a relationship, they live together, their finances will be affected by each other even if they keep them seperate. In this case, if he has to pay the rent then it will affect their life even if its only things like social life, holidays etc. So it absolutely should be discussed between them.

Its called a relationship which involves discussion and compromise and understanding, not demanding your own way and calling the other person controlling if they disagree.

Icanttakethisanymore · 15/09/2024 21:41

Crikeyalmighty · 15/09/2024 21:29

@Icanttakethisanymore not true about 12 months- I've had a 2 year fixed term ( and rent) on our current one - just about to renew again for a year. My friend has a 3 year fixed term and fixed rent on a recent rental .

That’s odd. I rented out a flat recently and someone wanted to fix it for 24 months and the estate agent told me it’s not legally enforceable beyond 12 months.

soupfiend · 15/09/2024 21:41

skyfalldown · 15/09/2024 21:39

I'd move out before that ever happened

Show quote history

You are still liable for the rent for the entirety of the rental period. Or your mother would be if you wouldnt or couldnt pay

Dont you know this?

You should never make someone responsible financially for something without their permission, did she sign anything and understand what you had done?

soupfiend · 15/09/2024 21:39

And people are very much focusing on the debt risk and mortgages but Im just sitting here thinking about what my OH and I (not married) are jointly involved in, joint accounts, used to have a mortgage together now paid off, broadband, water bill, council tax (as we live together in the same house so automatically on the bills), gas and electric, we have taken loans to get house improvements, sofas, new kitchen, the list is endless

If he or I had a massive debt sitting round our necks it affects everything, including if you get offered preferential deals on phones or utilities or everything

skyfalldown · 15/09/2024 21:39

ReadingSoManyThreads · 15/09/2024 21:37

What a respectful child 🙄

YOU may not expect her to pay a penny, but the Landlord WOULD, should you fall on hard times and accrue rent arrears!

Show quote history

I'd move out before that ever happened

AngelicKaty · 15/09/2024 21:39

workworkbloodywork · 15/09/2024 19:02

Not sure if I’m being highly unreasonable or fully entitled to be majorly fucked off with him.

His sister has asked him to be a guarantor on a rental that they want to upsize to as the partner has recently gone self employed.

he initially asked if I would be too but I was overseas at the time as I asked for us to discuss it when I was home.

he then said that we weren’t needed as they found someone. That then fell through and so they asked if just DF would do it. Again said let’s discuss when I’m home.

ive found out today that they have a moving date and have been packing. Turns out DF has agreed to do it without any communication to me.

so YABU - it’s family, you should think twice and just sign to dotted line asap

or YANBU - as an engaged couple, decisions that affect your family unit should be discussed at length before concluding on a decision together.

YANBU. I'm glad you're not directly involved in this and if your DF hasn't yet signed the guarantee, then persuade him not to (if he already has, then it's too late). Ask DF what his sister's and partner's new rent will be and ask him if he can afford to pay it in addition to his own expenses every month? Naturally, everyone who asks someone to act as guarantor promises faithfully they will never default on their rent, but none of us knows what the future holds - his sister could lose her job and/or her partner's new business may not be as successful as they hope. Taking on a higher rent at the same time as going self-employed seems risky to say the least, and asking anyone else to share in that risk is grossly unfair.

Crikeyalmighty · 15/09/2024 21:37

@SnufkinsSpiritAnimal I agree. We have paid over £2k a month for many years , rent lovely houses and live in good areas- work for ourselves and have 24 years rental history and great references. Now in early 60s- last estate agent that asked us for a guarantor was told to bugger off and that we simply would just not go for the property - he was back within an hour- all fine- he had just been box ticking!!

ReadingSoManyThreads · 15/09/2024 21:37

skyfalldown · 15/09/2024 21:35

I don't think I even asked when I put my mum down as a guarantor, it was just a box I needed to tick to ensure I could live somewhere in this market. I'd never expect her to pay a penny.

What a respectful child 🙄

YOU may not expect her to pay a penny, but the Landlord WOULD, should you fall on hard times and accrue rent arrears!

ItsFreedomBabyYeah · 15/09/2024 21:36

I can see why you are annoyed. I would at least want an informed discussion on a big decision.

PyongyangKipperbang · 15/09/2024 21:35

AngelicKaty · 15/09/2024 21:19

It's not sad she wouldn't - she's absolutely right to be reluctant. I wouldn't act as guarantor for ANYONE for ANY REASON - only a fool would do so. It can destroy family relationships forever. No-one plans on not being able to pay their rent and stiffing their relatives when asking for a "favour" as huge as this, but anyone can lose their income with little warning and find themselves in the position of defaulting on their rent.
I volunteered for Citizens Advice for 10 years and advised on three separate cases of guarantors being called upon to pay their family members' rents - none of the guarantors really understood the undertaking they were making when they signed the guarantee and none of them could afford to pay their relatives' rents in addition to their own when called upon to do so and they were all devastated to realise they were on the legal hook. The two children and one grand-child involved in these cases no longer have a relationship with their mums and grand-mother (the guarantors) even though these women were being pursued for THEIR rent!
Advice to everyone: NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, AGREE TO BE A GUARANTOR FOR ANYONE (unless you have an endless pot of money and don't mind giving it away).

Show quote history

Completely agree, I was asked by my partner to be his guarantor (we dont live together by choice) as his former landlord was selling up and basically couldnt be arsed to provide a reference.

I said no. He has never missed a rent payment in his life but the fact is that he could have dumped me, not paid his rent and I would have been on the hook for it. Sadly, I no longer trust anyone when it comes to.....well anything.

skyfalldown · 15/09/2024 21:35

I don't think I even asked when I put my mum down as a guarantor, it was just a box I needed to tick to ensure I could live somewhere in this market. I'd never expect her to pay a penny.

HeySummerWhereAreYou · 15/09/2024 21:34

ReadingSoManyThreads · 15/09/2024 20:58

And you come across as very naïve. Being a guarantor is a massive financial risk and it absolutely CAN have an impact on the OP. As a guarantor, you can be taken to court for tens of thousands of rent arrears and damage costs. It's irrelevant that it's for family, family can screw over family, it happens every day.

Show quote history

This! ^

Sadly there is not a single soul in your life who is not capable of screwing you over, or letting you down. In some cases, it may not be deliberate or intended. Someone may fall on hard times/suddenly lose their job etc, but SOMEthing could go wrong, and they may not be able to pay up.

If the person you are being guarantor for defaults on the debt/money owing, it then become YOUR DEBT!

And as you say, you can end up being chased by creditors/the courts/bailiffs, for 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of pounds.

suburberphobe · 15/09/2024 21:29

What happens if you marry? Will your funds be at risk?

It's old-fashioned and stupid that UK still does not recognise Pre-nuptial agreements.

Anyone marrying needs to secure their money they have worked and saved for.

I live in a country that has that and as a solo mum thank fuck basically.

He never asked for anything anyway, or gave me anything to bring up our child.

Just did it all myself. And fucked him out of my life.