Colleague deliberately staying late at work just to accrue TOIL?

Thank you @Mumofoneandone

That sounds more like a you problem I’m afraid. We work to live, not live to work; join in or leave her be. She’s not breaking any rules.

Same for me

I had a member of my team who managed to crack the code for flexible working. She would have regular sickness of an entire week, then on her return work extra to catch up and accrue banked hours. Then she’d use those banked hours. She managed to have loads of leave and give the impression she was banking masses of hours working really hard. Problem was she had been with the business 30 years and had a wealth of knowledge it would be impossible to replace.

I just accepted it and grumbled to my husband.

I've had to use most my AL for DHs hospital appointments, TOIL, is rare, if you stay late you are told to come in a bit later, leave a little later or longer lunch, the next day. No abuse possible, sick leave is a different matter

Is there anything stopping you from doing the same as her?

It would take ages to build up a weeks worth of TOIL at 15 mins per day! It’ll be a while before she’s able to do that again.

Shes very smart and playing the system. Also manipulating the system to work for her

If you don't like what she's doing I'd check out the rules, first and foremost to see if what she's doing is actually wrong or is actually allowed

For example..... I dont understand how she can accrue TOIL each day for 15 or 20 minutes each day.....that's a crazy TOIL accrual method and makes no sense. Is it allowed?

AND if she's also using flexi time to do personal chores during her working day.....how does this work? How has she worked enough hours to use flexi AND TOIL?

It needs clarifying.

Because...... if what she's doing is correct, then I'd be doing it too, if I were you

They should promote you! Her manager sounds rubbish…

But it will make a difference to OP when she is one of those who has to take on extra work while her colleague who's played the system is off using the TOIL she's cunningly accrued.

Check the policy first.

Why is her line manager not noticing the TOIL? I wouldn’t approve this for my direct report unless it was a particularly busy week with events etc. Don’t say what she told you but just ask about the TOIL policy. You don’t know what she has discussed / told her line manager and you could end up looking the bad one here.

I manage a team and overtime(for TOIL) has to be approved. It doesn’t necessarily have to be approved in advance because sometimes events need to be dealt with unexpectedly (rarely in our industry but sometimes). However I wouldn’t be approved frequent overtime for day to day tasks. I’d be having a chat about workload and what someone had on their plate that could be deprioritised or shared.

Having said that we also operate flexi time, so assuming you won’t miss a meeting or commitment, someone is perfectly at liberty to arrive 30 minutes earlier, pop to the post box or do an errand for 30mins and that doesn’t need approval. You can’t though do this for large amounts of time. It’s clearly defined.

Perhaps you need to discuss with your manager the overtime and flexi time policies more generally.

Thats amazing (8 weeks annual leave!) And outrageous (ita jaw drippingly shameless) in equal parts

Its also one of a billion examples of "this is why we can't have nice things"

Some people are the worst

Do you even work in the Civil Service @MuchasSmoochas ? Or just decided to have a swipe. In my dept it is taken seriously and people have been sacked for that sort of fraud.

We can't accrue TOIL without prior manager approval. Seems like there isn't a policy or if there is she is abusing it. Maybe just have a chat with your manager about the TOIL policy for your own information and then you can work out whether she's being a CF or not.

This is a management issue. Surely her manager has to sign the toil off and is aware of it? So if it is a shit manager they are unlikely to refuse it or go higher up.

This

Can’t you see that yours is a totally different situation? If it’s business need, that’s entirely different to someone staying late every day through choice ‘finishing work’ because they’ve been titting about through the day / have poor time management skills / just want to accrue hours to get an extra week off.

It is though because it affects her when she is off.

When I was much younger, I worked for a v small company (6 of us). As soon as the director went out, the other 2 people who should be answering calls both made long personal calls (I'm talking over an hour sometimes) which meant that I had to answer all the calls. This was before email, so there were a lot of calls.

I really wish that I had said something, but I was too young.

It seems we have two things going on here.

1 - Someone working beyond their contracted hours and getting time off in compensation. This, by itself, is entirely fair - and a lot of employees would do well if this sort of thing was more easily available.

2 - Someone (actually the same person) slacking off during the working day and not doing as much work as they should. This is not fair and it would be legitimate to be raised as a complaint. But it's strictly speaking a distinct issue from the TOIL one.

I don't side with the "none of your business" people, at least not in relation to issue no. 2. People are entirely entitled to raise grievances against their lazy colleagues when it negatively impacts on their own work.

Check your policy - and maybe google to se other company policies online to maybe be able to suggest some amendments.

I instigated some changes where TOIL or overtime was acceptable but only after having a quick check with me prior so I knew whet to expect. We also have a policy that you can only carry over 8 hours to the next month - but I’m happy for people to use the TOIL up within the month it occurs - meaning it is being taken round about the time it is being worked. Therefore trying to avoid burnout.

There is flexibility where someone may work hours at the very end of the month and so they don’t lose their hours. But as I am kept informed I can make sure this little blips are looked after.

I am also flexible when it comes to appts, family emergencies etc for my team of 21. In most cases as I am reasonable they will always make sure where they can the missing time is made up without me even having to ask. It pays dividends back when I require them on the rare occasion to be flexible too.

however the worst thing for a team is when one person doesn’t play fair and the others have to cover or can see the unfairness when they themselves are good workers. Then the rot sets in.

I would get the policy, check it and then if you can see abuse the best way to handle it might be a word with your manager. Not dobbing in the staff member but discussing your concerns on capacity and covering holidays at a time when there is also issues re sickness.

Faced with the prospect of having to maybe manage or prioritise work being done and other work not being covered your manager might step up.