Should I fade this friend out?

Thepontiacbanditsfurrydice · 2024-09-13T13:21:42+00:00

Be as brutal as you like. Old friend who I love and our kids get on well but she has form for being very flaky with social arrangements. Reproducing what happened below. Keen to hear how others would react. She and I had suggested meeting up with a third person this weekend. (We have all known each other 20+ years.) She messages us both suggesting dates. I provide availability. Third friend doesn’t respond at all. She chases a couple of times, no answer from third friend. I message my friend offline saying “shall we just go out anyway without x if she’s not about?” Friend says yes, we decide to go tonight and decide to choose a venue today. I ask my partner to cancel after work drinks so he can be here with my 12 year old gets back from an after school club. Message her an hour ago to check she is still ok. She responds: “Er, I am around but we didn’t hear from x. Might be too last minute. Shall we just wait until x is around?” Maybe I am being insensitive but to me this feels like a real slap in the face. It says to me one of two things: “I am really disorganised” or “I can’t really be arsed meeting you on your own if x isn’t around so I won’t prioritise you.” She has quite a long history of behaviour like this: makes people (not just me) feel that she is always on the lookout for a better (social) offer. She can also be very kind and is very good company but I am a bit tired of this. I am not a fan of ghosting, blocking and flouncing and I get that life is difficult and people can’t always be held to plans so won’t be doing any of that. But it’s the strong sense of me being used as a social prop which has really pissed me off. Would I BU to ignore her the next time she tries to arrange something?

andthat · 12/10/2024 15:26

Thepontiacbanditsfurrydice · 13/09/2024 15:11

I went back and said: “I thought we had agreed to go out just the two of us? It’s a bit annoying because (partner) has had to cancel a drinks thing but not the end of the world.” She came back with an annoying “sorry I thought better to do it with x but I can if you really want to?”

I am not going to press her on it if she doesn’t want to go: going for a drink out of a sense of obligation isn’t a great feeling.

She does this a lot and I have pulled her up on it many times. I think she’s naturally disorganised but it’s the fact she’s basically saying I can’t be bothered making time for you, even though I am actually free, if our other friend isn’t there. It’s pretty insulting.

The more you talk about her, the worse she seems.

Why the extra chance? Shes had plenty and didn’t change…

GenAvocadoOnToast · 13/09/2024 23:31

I've recently backed off from a friend of nearly 20 years for the same reason. She initiates meeting up, then messes me around. She's just done it to me three times in a row. She suggested another meeting last week and I said no. I haven't got the energy for it anymore.

Waterboatlass · 13/09/2024 23:16

I think you have the measure of her and it's fine to accept her as she is, just make clear this occasion isn't ok then probably only accept her plans when they suit you. I know it's too late now but 'we'll leave it as you would rather not but it would have been helpful to let me know beforehand that you'd changed your mind'.

Justmuddlingalong · 13/09/2024 21:03

Send her a screenshot of the message agreeing to go out, just the 2 of you. And ask her why she changed the plan without notifying you.
And tell her this pissing about is becoming a real issue.
Don't hang back on saying your piece, she needs pulling up on it.

CruCru · 13/09/2024 20:55

Honestly? I had a friend like this. In the end, when she invited me to stuff I would say “Unfortunately I won’t be able to make this. I hope you have a nice time!”

vincettenoir · 13/09/2024 20:45

I have a friend like this and I understand it can be draining. I don’t initiate one on one plans with her. If she asks me to meet up I make a plan to
meet up knowing it might be cancelled and I get the time back. I guess I manage my own expectations every time. In this instance her circumstances are different from mine and her flakiness is understandable.

As you describe her as being really compatible and you have a long friendship I wouldn’t be quick to phase her out. But just accept her on her own terms and invest more in friends who are more reliable.

TheHistorian · 13/09/2024 20:29

You're pushing against a closed door I'm afraid. She's seeing the friendship differently from you and won't change which will always cause you pain. A bit like unrequited love.

Perhaps concentrate on more reciprocal friendships and have a think about why you keep pursuing someone who doesn't want the intimacy of one on one friendship. She may not be capable of giving you the attention you want, not a failing or rejection on your part, but her issue.

Nanny0gg · 13/09/2024 17:32

Thepontiacbanditsfurrydice · 13/09/2024 15:11

I went back and said: “I thought we had agreed to go out just the two of us? It’s a bit annoying because (partner) has had to cancel a drinks thing but not the end of the world.” She came back with an annoying “sorry I thought better to do it with x but I can if you really want to?”

I am not going to press her on it if she doesn’t want to go: going for a drink out of a sense of obligation isn’t a great feeling.

She does this a lot and I have pulled her up on it many times. I think she’s naturally disorganised but it’s the fact she’s basically saying I can’t be bothered making time for you, even though I am actually free, if our other friend isn’t there. It’s pretty insulting.

Nope, She's blatantly told you she doesn't want to go

Rude.

Original poster

Thepontiacbanditsfurrydice · 13/09/2024 17:26

TheHistorian · 13/09/2024 16:59

How important is this friend to you? Sounds like she's got form for being unreliable. Two choices, work with it or not bother. You're unlikely to change this behaviour unfortunately.

The hard truth is I really like her. We have loads in common and a similar outlook on loads of things. I really enjoy her company. If I had to choose a friend based on compatibility she would be probably number one.

I know she is fond of me and values our friendship. She has photos of me in her house etc.

But she has always given off this vibe that she places the “tribe” over the individual. She’s always been someone who “runs with a crowd” if that makes sense. When I met her we were part of the same group of friends and that has dissipated over the years.

She does have close female friends but she aligns them with her social group and I have always felt (fairly or unfairly) that she is more concerned with her place in the group than with one on one friendships. She is very happy to make time for group events like parties, holidays and outings, less so for a quiet drink.

She has always been like that and I have accepted her warts and all. But we are now in our 50s. We both have kids and high stress jobs. So seeing friends doesn’t happen by accident any more. You have to get your shit together and I feel she resents having to do the minimum to keep friendships ticking over. And it pisses me off that she seems to view this a burden.

OP posts:

TheHistorian · 13/09/2024 16:59

How important is this friend to you? Sounds like she's got form for being unreliable. Two choices, work with it or not bother. You're unlikely to change this behaviour unfortunately.

Original poster

Thepontiacbanditsfurrydice · 13/09/2024 16:24

In that case I'd respond to confirm you'd cancelled DH's plan's and that this is getting old, being messed around. You can say that in a good humoured but clear way, it doesn't have to be a huge drama (I've done so recently to a longish term friend, not 20 years).

I’ve basically done that. It’s the same thing again and again. I get a wide-eyed “oh sorry did I inconvenience you?”

Then it all goes quiet and she gets back in touch a few weeks later to say “love to see you, let’s go out,” but is incapable of initiating arrangements or sticking to plans or introduces caveats at the last minute that make clear it’s an inconvenience to her.

I’m certainly not going to introduce any drama into the mix here. She’s an old friend and very enmeshed with my family and friendship group. And when you have her attention she’s fantastic. But I am not going to respond next time she tries to get this going. I find being made to feel like a second class option all the time pretty insulting.

OP posts:

Waterboatlass · 13/09/2024 16:04

Thepontiacbanditsfurrydice · 13/09/2024 15:50

Yeah we have kind of done that before though. It feels a bit last chance saloon.

Show quote history

In that case I'd respond to confirm you'd cancelled DH's plan's and that this is getting old, being messed around. You can say that in a good humoured but clear way, it doesn't have to be a huge drama (I've done so recently to a longish term friend, not 20 years).

Then I probably wouldn't block after 20 years but I would probably stop replying until/unless I received a proper apology and acceptance of her behaviour.

GreatBigCat · 13/09/2024 15:52

Mostlyoblivious · 13/09/2024 15:51

You need to reply to her last message something along the lines of “what I want is for you to tell me you’ve changed your mind and not let me change other people’s arrangements for no reason. It’s not just me you’re messing around.”

I think she needs calling out on the behaviour and then yes, let the friendship fade

This is a really good reply.

Mostlyoblivious · 13/09/2024 15:51

You need to reply to her last message something along the lines of “what I want is for you to tell me you’ve changed your mind and not let me change other people’s arrangements for no reason. It’s not just me you’re messing around.”

I think she needs calling out on the behaviour and then yes, let the friendship fade

Original poster

Thepontiacbanditsfurrydice · 13/09/2024 15:50

Ladyluckinred · 13/09/2024 15:37

OP, you’ve been friends for 20+ years, just tell her it’s inconsiderate to make plans and cancel (or make it very clear she wants to) because she isn’t taking the impact on you into account. Say if it keeps happening, you won’t make plans anymore. I personally find the idea of Ignoring/pretending not to be available, draining. I’m sure your friendship can handle some upset and disagreement, but you’ll likely feel resentful towards her if you aren’t being open with how this affects you.

Yeah we have kind of done that before though. It feels a bit last chance saloon.

OP posts:

Original poster

Thepontiacbanditsfurrydice · 13/09/2024 15:49

Waterboatlass · 13/09/2024 15:39

Sounds like your other friend has enough of her if this is a regular thing. If it was a recent friend I would let her go but after 20 years I would say 'thats fine, I thought we'd said we were going out though. DH has cancelled his drinks. I'll ask him to reinstate his plans'.

The third friend is even flakier so I doubt she would care. Which was the irony for me: that my friend was holding out for someone who hadn’t responded to a single message.

OP posts:

Original poster

Thepontiacbanditsfurrydice · 13/09/2024 15:45

BlueSkiesRain · 13/09/2024 15:14

Your friend originally said:

shall we just go out anyway without x if she’s not about?”

IF she's not about . You haven't heard from her. Your friend is concerned how it looks to go out without the other friend. Have you tried to contact other friend?

You were waiting to Friday to book the venue to give time for other friend to respond.

Don't wait until the day before to confirm times and venues.

I have ADHD and I always confirm with other people a few days ahead. You can't have been that keen to see her either if you hadn't confirmed the time and venue a few days ahead.

Edited

No I suggested we go out without the third person. My friend had at that point nudged the third person twice over the course of a week on a WhatsApp thread and once via text and had no response.

We would never feel the need to confirm a venue several days before we meet. On our last message she said “chat Friday about where to go”. It’s a casual drink in a pub, not dinner or anything.

My friend is far more relaxed than I am about arrangements and she would have thought it really weird if I had asked her to confirm a venue earlier. If I had texted her earlier in the week about this she would’ve felt I was harassing her.

OP posts:

Waterboatlass · 13/09/2024 15:39

I would then stick to that.

Waterboatlass · 13/09/2024 15:39

Sounds like your other friend has enough of her if this is a regular thing. If it was a recent friend I would let her go but after 20 years I would say 'thats fine, I thought we'd said we were going out though. DH has cancelled his drinks. I'll ask him to reinstate his plans'.

Ladyluckinred · 13/09/2024 15:37

OP, you’ve been friends for 20+ years, just tell her it’s inconsiderate to make plans and cancel (or make it very clear she wants to) because she isn’t taking the impact on you into account. Say if it keeps happening, you won’t make plans anymore. I personally find the idea of Ignoring/pretending not to be available, draining. I’m sure your friendship can handle some upset and disagreement, but you’ll likely feel resentful towards her if you aren’t being open with how this affects you.

MinorTom · 13/09/2024 15:30

Flaky friends are for friend groups only. That is how I deal with them because you are never dependent on them turning up. If it isn’t a friend group friend then forget about meeting her alone.

SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 13/09/2024 15:29

I bet your friend didn't mean to be disrespectful, though she has been. She probably wanted to have a night out with both of you rather than a one-to-one (the dynamic is different; doesn't mean she likes you any less) and vaguely agreed to a one-to-one without really thinking about it, then forgot about it.

Some people are vague and flaky about arrangements and others stick to what they have agreed and hate to let anyone down. Like you, I am in the latter group. When I have flaky friends whose company I enjoy enough to work around this irritating trait, I tend to take any arrangement with a pinch of salt until the day itself. So I'd probably ask my DH if he could be on standby to cancel work drinks that evening, rather than treat it like a firm arrangement.

But I have to like someone a lot to bother with all that! In the case of you and your friend, it was hurtful to say 'I can go out if you really want to' as though you were putting some kind of burden on her, and maybe you won't feel like putting yourself out to see her in future.

CleopatrasBeautifulNose · 13/09/2024 15:26

It isn't nice for her to agree a plan (and that included choosing venue today) and then mess you about and limply deign to still come out if you insist. 🤨

There's only so much of that any person should tolerate before they are essentially sacrificing their own self respect.

So, I think in your shoes I'd take her company on my terms only and make no plans with her that could be spoiled by her flakiness.

So, group occasions - fine. Bump into each other in town - fine. Pin your weekend fun on her say so - nah, don't think so thanks.

I wouldn't ignore her to do it, I'd just not be available / find reasons to decline.

Cherrysoup · 13/09/2024 15:16

'If you really want to'?? OMG, she isn't keen is she?

BlueSkiesRain · 13/09/2024 15:14

Your friend originally said:

shall we just go out anyway without x if she’s not about?”

IF she's not about . You haven't heard from her. Your friend is concerned how it looks to go out without the other friend. Have you tried to contact other friend?

You were waiting to Friday to book the venue to give time for other friend to respond.

Don't wait until the day before to confirm times and venues.

I have ADHD and I always confirm with other people a few days ahead. You can't have been that keen to see her either if you hadn't confirmed the time and venue a few days ahead.