To ask how to negotiate Christmas with exwife

How would that work? You think a situation where a mother barely ever parented her kids and wasn't interested in having them for Christmas, but her new boyfriend wanted to change that- that would receive different replies??

My exh was an absolute ass through our divorce but he did agree to our 3 DC spending Xmas Eve and Xmas day with me each year and he had Boxing Day and 27th and he brought them back around lunch time on 28th. I know he only agreed to this in court because he didn't want to have to do Xmas stockings for DC or cook Xmas dinner but I was hugely grateful to him for that. It sounds like your partner is happy with his exw doing stockings and cooking Xmas dinner for his kids. I know my exh felt guilty because he had an affair which ended our 20 years marriage. Could your partner feel guilty so let's exw have DC on Xmas day?

He isnt being used for 'childcare' - they are his children!!

She is working which is pretty important. Just move your booking for the break that is just the two of you to another time or take the children with you.

To be blunt, it also sounds like the main reason you want the kids for Xmas is that you wanted it to fit in with your kids’ schedule and to give you a child free NY. That’s not a good reason. It might well be better for your partner’s kids to have some time with him where there aren’t other children present, and they don’t have to fit in with them.

Sounds more like you want to use her for childcare than the other way around, and a holiday certainly doesn’t trump work.

I read this wrong a first and assumed you’d actually spoken to her before making these plans!

When was this plan agreed and who were involved in the planning?

Agree with others - this needed discussing before you booked the holiday

You can’t just assume the kids’ mum will be happy with year on/ year off, it needed to be discussed before you “had it all planned out”.

Sadly OP this isn't your call and it's not about what you want. Concentrate on your own dc and their christmas. Accept the fact your partner doesn't seem that bothered about 'special days' and christmas.

No, she’s not changing the plans that have been like that for years. It’s OP (and her partner, to an unclear extent) who are trying to do that. The kids have never spent Christmas with their dad before.

I can’t help feeling some of the responses on here would be different (as is often the case) if the OP’s partner was female. There are several elements to the post, I realise (the holiday, the agreement they’ve previously had etc, the OP’s reference to childcare), but there are also people very quick to suggest the dad’s DC probably don’t want to spend Christmas with him as they don’t live with him… That seems like quite a reach to me (they might be also be desperate to spend Christmas with him for all we know!), and not the point of the post…

It doesn’t sound like you discussed this with ex wife, but decided that this would be a nice thing to do. If that’s the case I don’t think you have a leg to stand on.

If I’ve interpreted correctly, you unilaterally decided to change the longstanding arrangements for Christmas.

2 sides to it.... should he have checked her availability? Probably, healthy co-parenting would be to check with one another. Is she changing the plans that have been like that for years, yes it sounds like. Its a tough one.

So the kids are hardly at your house, but you think they should want to spend Christmas there? The kids probably want to spend Christmas with the parent they actually live with. Shocking.

You've come on here to moan before asking what the kids think 😂 yes YABU. Let them spend Christmas with their mum.

I am also confused by this "the plan was" as it seems like you have planned something plus booked holiday without checking with her at all. Maybe a more formal plan needs to be in place and holidays negotiated in advance before anybody makes plans

The plan was to have Christmas all together the 6 of us for the week starting the 23rd, then they would go back to their mum and then my partner and I have booked a mini break just the 2 of us over new year.

Whose plan was this and when and how was it made? Surely you and your partner didn’t unilaterally decide to change the holiday schedule that had been in place for his kids for years to better fit with your kids’ schedule and your vacation plans and then expect the mom to say “sure sure whatever you want” when you told her. Had she ever agreed to the change for this year before you and your partner made travel plans?

If your partner wants to change the custody schedule moving forward (and I don’t mean flexing it around your DC’s schedule, I mean setting a formal year to year custody schedule that works for his kids) then he should first approach his ex with a proposed schedule and then go through the courts if that doesn’t work. It will need to either be the same each year or alternate one year on one year off. But that needs to come from him, and he doesn’t sound all that fussed.

And I agree with others, the “using him for childcare” comment is absolutely absurd. They’re his own children and he’s parenting far less than half the time.

So presumably the ex has had to be flexible and accept short notice to work around your dp's shifts but you don't think your dp should be flexible so the ex can work? I'm not sure I would even call it being flexible, if your dp has never had Xmas week then surely he has always had the second week of the Xmas holiday? Or has he just never bothered and left it to his ex to sort out childcare for school holidays

It's odd that you have both made plans without discussing with the other parent. If you have never had the children for Christmas, why would that change this year without agreeing? It feels like he was supposed to speak to her earlier and didn't and is now refusing to. You also say she had to be more flexible when he did shifts, so it sounds like he is a challenge to coparent with.

In our extended family, we have always done kids are with one parent from Christmas eve afternoon until boxing day morning, so they can relax and enjoy Christmas. Then alternate years, so they do that with the other parent too.

Sorry to be blunt- and I'm not anti new partner/ although new partners can get a very tough time on MN- but up here too recently he's worked shifts- so the I final arrangement with his ex wife was entirely based on and around his convenience with his shifts? You have a routine with your kids, so he's suddenly decided he should have the same- but has made no effort to do so u til you were on the scene. He's just decided this year to a week on/ week off Christmas arrangement, in the second half of the year, with no consultation with their mum. Having out no effort into having regular time at Christmas with the kids before now because it was easier for him not to. I think you maybe have to accept this year is t going to go the way you want, and discuss next year- I assume next year you don't want Christmas because your kids are at their dads and want new year? If you do it the way she needs/ wants this year, hopefully you can do it the way you want next year, and then ongoing

What age are the kids and how far apart do parents live?

Tbh I can't imagine kids not seeing both parents around Christmas, unless you live really far apart.

Why don't you split the weeks so it's half a week each for both weeks, that still covers you going away.

Maybe kids also don't want to be all together with proto step siblings at Xmas. What do they want?

When you say "the plan was", had this previously been confirmed or had you assumed that the mother would allow you to have the children christmas week?

My partner has never had the children for Christmas week, they have always been with their mum and my partner has just seen gone to see them on Christmas morning or has had them on Boxing Day etc but they’ve never woken up at his house on Christmas morning

If he’s not fought it by getting a Child Arrangement Order then the ex probably thinks that your partner is happy with the normal arrangement. He may be one of those Disney dads who tell his partner and ex what they want to hear rather than what they really think because they want a peaceful life when it’s a matter of time before things go wrong.

By not fighting it, he’s saying that he’d rather anger you than the ex.

I'm asking on how my partner can negotiate and come to a compromise that we are all happy you answered your last question in your opening post
My partner is unwilling to fight it but I am so upset because we had it all planned out

Your first mistake was planning it all out and expecting the Mom to fall in line with it. The second mistake was your boyfriend not speaking to his ex in advance of the plans being made.

How old are his children and why had he never had them on Christmas day before?

he isn’t allowed special days like Christmas Well the place to address that is in the Courts. If he hasn’t done it, then perhaps he actually doesn’t mind that much?

My partner has never had the children for Christmas week, they have always been with their mum and my partner has just seen gone to see them on Christmas morning or has had them on Boxing Day etc but they’ve never woken up at his house on Christmas morning Has anyone actually asked the children whether they want to be away from home at Christmas? Maybe they don’t find it particularly comfortable in your home?

My partner is unwilling to fight it but I am so upset because we had it all planned out.
AIBU and how can we negotiate with her? You’re not being unreasonable to be upset that your plans need to be re-thought out, but if he doesn’t want to have alternate Christmases enforced in a Court, then there is absolutely nothing you can do. There’s no negotiating for you to do. His custody arrangements with another person have nothing to do with you.

Tbf we haven’t asked what the kids think.

Of course not.

It’s a bit rich for you to moan about his ex using him for childcare when you just want him to have them when you have your kids because it’s convenient and then you can go on holiday.

Many kids don’t want to spend Christmas Day with the parent they stay with only every other weekend. It’s about what’s best for them, not his new girlfriend and the fact that he hasn’t even asked them or talked to them about it says it all.

I’m asking on how my partner can negotiate and come to a compromise that we are all happy with.

No need to ask. Your partner has stated he's unwilling to fight this.

I'd work on accepting it.