To ask how to negotiate Christmas with exwife

Maybe she’s concerned he won’t do it ‘properly’ because he never has before? How involved is he in creating this kind of event?

It literally says in the OP that the man doesn't want to fight it (doesn't want to parent his kids at Christmas) and OP has written how often he sees his kids, and it's a tiny amount of days. I don't understand how you think that's me deciding anything.

This is EXACTLY what I mean! You’ve decided the dad ‘barely ever’ parents his kids and isn’t interested in having them for Christmas. It doesn’t say that in the OP. But because he’s the dad, he MUST be the bad guy…

Isn’t negotiating the same as fighting for it in which case does your partner want to go there? I think I know what the answer is but does he intend to go away with you and only have the kids a few days or has he asked you about cancelling your trip?

This is why he should have had a Child Arrangement Order drawn up- the courts would have fought for his right to have every other Christmas if he didn’t have the stomach to stand up for it.

@IridescentShadow

The ExW isn't sounding very Child-focused, either

You mean the ExW who has worked round her ExH's shifts for years, always looked after her children over Christmas for that reason, and even facilitated him visiting them in her home on Christmas day? Oh, and also is the primary carer for the children?

No excuse.

Get it sorted officially so EVERYONE knows where they are

I agree with you OP, it’s about u also not just the ex and kids.

Why do people say this?

She IS involved. She lives with their father.

It sounds like you had it "all planned" out without speaking to their mum, who is accustomedto doing it all having them all for Christmas every year?

Why would you be surprised she has other plans?

The ExW isn't sounding very Child-focused, either. @IridescentShadow the woman has her kids all the time apart from the pitiful number of days the man chooses to see them. Sounds like she's entirely child focussed.
The man only has them every other weekend and one evening a week and doesn't want them at Christmas.

How he negotiates with his ex really depends on what happened here.

Had she agreed to giving up Christmas and having the children the week after? Did she then cancel that agreement?

Crikey OP, if they’d never had a year on / year off system for Christmas, you’ve approached this to almost set yourself up for failure. This is something that should have been raised months ago, not 3 months away.

from mums perspective it’s very convenient that he never asked for Christmas until he became a big happy family with someone else. I’m not saying that’s how it is, I’m saying that’s how it feels for her.

Even the lowest conflict mother would be upset to hear that someone has unilaterally decided that the standing arrangement of her having her children with her for Christmas is being challenged.

she hasn’t thrown a spanner in the works, that’s your household throwing the spanners.

this needs to be a discussion and really should be approached sensitively & from a place of what’s fair & best for the children.

what do the children want?

I’m a step-parent, not a mother. I put up with some absolutely mad shit from DHs ex girlfriend. I don’t love the woman for many reasons. But I do have empathy & I know it hurts her when her kids aren’t with her Christmas Day, it’s been an arrangement to rotate ever since they broke up long before I or her husband came on the scene & almost a decade later it still upsets her to not have them there (not that she’d have the same empathy for DH mind, he generally gets a barrage of abuse by text throughout the day for daring to want to speak with the kids Xmas morning when it’s ‘her’ turn). But whatever feelings I may have for the woman she’s the kids mum & if she’s struggling it affects the kids. Please try & put yourself in her shoes. It sounds like you & your ex have been really sensible but it hasn’t happened that way for her & your DP. She’s probably very surprised by all this.

initiate a proper conversation for future Christmas plans.

he was a bit silly too booking a holiday for a week he’d previously been expected to have them (sorry if I read that wrong).

I've found these posting really harsh on the OP: both she/her DP AND the Children's Mother seem to have made plans/assumptions about Christmas without co-ordinating with each other, so why is she getting all the flack? She also has Children and contact patterns to work around, and it isn't wrong to want time alone as a Couple.

And to the person who said it is none of her business; whilst the contact is between the Parents, I'm deeply empathetic having been in the position where provisional plans my DP & I have made have been over-set and finalised by DP's ExW without reference to me/my AL/my Children (I know that's a DP problem ...).

FWIW, I think "childcare" refers to the fruatration that her DP doesn't get a share of the Special Occasions but is expected to be around when his ExW wants things facilitated, regardless of all the other aspects of his own life (his Work; his Partner; other Children). The ExW isn't sounding very Child-focused, either.

How old are the children? Tbh I can understand the mums reluctance if his never done Christmas before, most mums put a lot of effort for ‘the Santa experience.’ She’s probably worried they’ll have a crap day.

You sound like my divorced BIL.
I could not stand my ex SIL, but she always put the kids first. My BIL and his new partner are constantly re writing the rules, sifting responsibility to further their careers and max out on as they always put it ' well deserved child free time'.
I get that DH &I had pre children time to bond and have fun but there's something wrong in wanting all the kids in a blended family bend to this goal for a couple of 40somethings to go to Marrakech, again.
I have suggested to DH that we divorce so we can go away together on our childfree weekends but he's not sure our imaginary new partners will be willing to let us do that while they look after our kids for us.

What do the children want to do?

Not being funny, but will you do the stocking just right? The way she does? Because that is what the kids will expect and want. Will you be Santa like her, or will you do somewhat shakes their belief? ⁹Did your partner do half of that stuff when they were together?

How can you claim the ex uses your partner for childcare when he doesn't have them 50% of the time? He isn't doing enough. The bottom line is your partner isn't willing to change it and childcare arrangements are not your business, so you organise your trip for another time when he is free.

My partner is unwilling to fight it but I am so upset because we had it all planned out.

This is all down to him, the only negotiating you have to do is with him. If he doesn't want to try and change things, that's it.

… and the long suffering exW has also been nice enough to host him on Christmas day so he can spend time with his kids on the day and the kids don’t have to shuttle between mum and dad and yet she “only uses him for childcare”… WTAF am I reading

AIBU and how can we negotiate with her?

There is no we. Your boyfriend's arrangements with his ex are nothing to do with you. Stop trying to blend two families - it doesn't work - and let the children enjoy Christmas with their respective parents, not with boyfriends/girlfriends and their kids.

This is beyond delusion @mistletoeandwine86 YANBVU

My DC are nearly 10 and 6, I’ve been split from exH nearly two years, he does EoW and fuck all actual parenting. He’s never so much as wrapped a present for Christmas. Over my dead body is he ever taking them on Christmas. I let him take the kids away at Easter because his sister was visiting from overseas and the Easter bunny didn’t come.

Sounds like your partner has done sweet FA for his kids for Christmas historically and has been happy to dump the work on his ex but now has lined up someone (you) (and probably his mum too) do the Christmas admin and mental load so thought he might as well have a crack at having the kids at Christmas.

To be fair to him it sounds like he knows he’s been an absolute piss taker hence not wanting to have the argument with the exW.

So you haven't bothered to ask his children what they prefer - at Christmas !

Your dp and his ex have had a perfectly amicable arrangement for years that supported his shift work, and now you make plans to change it without consulting her.

Your dp is unbothered and doesn't want to argue over it.

YAB completely U.

She wants to work the other week and she's single. What does she do for a living?

I misread.

OP when you say the plan was to have them Christmas week....was that arranged with their Mum? Did she agree to that?

@mistletoeandwine86 You say "the plan was" for you to do this and then you and your partner booked a mini break. What do you mean by "the plan was"? Did you actually agree something with your partner's ex wife and now she wants to change the plan? Or did you book a holiday when the plan wasn't yet confirmed? It makes a big difference.