To ask how to negotiate Christmas with exwife

I’d say you are as unable to read as I am .

Read above !

Are you completely unable to read? The father has been able to spend Christmas with his kids every year, it’s the mother he’s proposing to not see the kids for the whole of Christmas week … and exactly so he can party on a child free couples holiday over NY.

She is right, it us unfair that she won't see the DC over the Xmas week.

I just rtfp and I came back to edit .

It was said that the mum has the kids every Xmas when actually this is all a nee set up.

Doesn’t seem like it was all agreed to either. .
Just assumed and now the mum has disagreed .
I would be too .

I do believe Xmas should be year on year off.
That way it’s fair for parents and especially children . As that’s what’s matters most.

or plan the children’s Christmas holidays around their child-free mini breaks with no regard for the fact the children would prefer to be elsewhere…

He has to fight it . He is just as entitled to spend Xmas switch his kids as the mum is .
No Xmas no childcare. .

Some mothers just like to make sure that they have new year free to party. .

His poor children🙁 you’ve been together just 2 years and you want to reorganise Christmas for him and his ex-wife?!

she says it’s unfair that she won’t be able to see them over Christmas week at all.

Of course it’s not fair. When she’s had the kids for Christmas he has still been able to see them in the run up and on the day. To suddenly do the whole week without the other parent involved at all isn’t fair on the kids.
You clearly only want this set up because you want to go on holiday child free. And it’s funny you say you deserve child free time when he only has them every other weekend. Mate, your bf gets plenty of child free time.

Op, you still seem to have missed the point that at Christmas, children and what they want come first and your desire for a bit of winter sun is completely irrelevant.

Your dp clearly isn't that fussed about seeing his DCs or about the holiday, so you could go on your own, go with someone else, or reschedule it, having had the sense and good manners to consult everyone first. It isn't all about you.

I'm a single mum and my ex never wanted DS on Christmas Day because he also couldn't be bothered with all the extras. I would never have relied on ex's latest woman to provide a decent Christmas for my child, he would have hated it..

I appreciate that Christmas is a bit different but we can’t break up the week because of our plans the following week. So it’ll just end up with him not seeing the children at all other than his usual EOW. Sigh.

After that update I wish I could vote YABU a second time. Good grief.

Alternating Christmas eve & day between the parents is perfectly reasonable if agreed in advance.

But that's not what happened. You and your partner booked a holiday and then expected his kids and their mother to just say "oh sure, we'll prioritize your couples trip and plan everyone's Christmas around that." And when their mom didn't give you exactly what you demanded your response is to shrug and say "whelp we're going on holiday so the kids just won't see their dad for Christmas at all." It's all stunningly self-involved and speaks volumes about your partner's attitude towards fatherhood if he goes along with it.

You’re coming across as if the way you want the Christmas to go is the only thing that matters. This isn’t a long standing plan that the ex is suddenly trying to disrupt. It’s still September and the ex is telling her co parent when she has to work over the Christmas holiday. This should have been considered before you assumed you could have the two weeks split the way you want. You’re accusing her of throwing a spanner in the works just because she’s not automatically going along with what you want. Your partner obviously realises she’s being perfectly reasonable and that’s why he doesn’t want to stand up to her. Maybe we just have a man here who doesn’t want to behave like a dickhead to his ex at the whims of a new partner, which would be refreshing.

It was never fair to consider having your step children for a whole week over Christmas knowing that their Mother, the woman who does the vast majority of their upbringing, would be upset by it. More importantly, you’ve admitted that the children would probably rather be with their Mum at Christmas anyway. Aren’t you supposed to be doing whatever would make them happiest? If you think about if from any perspective other than your own, you’d realise that your children probably don’t want to spend all of Christmas Eve and Christmas Day away from home with their Mum’s partner’s family either.

If you want to find a solution, you need to step into her shoes. She is their main carer and she has no one else. You are proposing she spend the whole of Christmas week by herself, without even visiting her children. Most single mums would say no to this. How far away are the paternal grandparents? Can she visit or drop them off there on Christmas morning? Presumably, as long as you get your holiday, you are open minded to a compromise that works for her.

Would you be able to go away the first week, then come back and have a second Christmas with all six of you the second week?

nothing to do with you. I co parent with my ex and if my new partner or his told me what to do, I’d tell them to fuck off. Pure and simple.

If the kids prefer to be with their mum for Christmas, then that’s where they should be.

If they do have such a preference, it’s likely to be the result of long-term choices, ie the dad has been the “secondary parent” for a long time so their main home is where they want to be for special days, or perhaps their mum has always gone to the effort to make Christmas special for them with decorations and food and activities, while their dad puts up a mini tree with a bit of sad tinsel on.

wow he often has them for a whole week over school holidays

Sounds totally reasonable to unilaterally change the Christmas arrangements that have been in place as long as the little one can remember

I voted YABU because it sounds like you booked the minibreak before you checked your preferred arrangements with your DP's ex. That was just silly.

This is tedious. I have read all of OPs replies, not just the OP. Yes, it's a tiny number of days a month. School runs are a bare minimum, very basic part of parenting. I couldn't care less about the sex or marital status of the parents involved. It's irrelevant.
The boyfriend not wanting to fight to parent his kids is depressing.

I agree with you about the OP, but I still think PP jumping in to suggest the DC probably don’t want to spend time with their dad on Christmas Day, or that his Ex is worried about his parenting skills, are making those assumptions about him because he’s male. He might be an amazing dad. He might be awful. We don’t know — and I don’t really think it’s the point of the post. It’s more — as you say — that the OP, from her post, doesn’t seem to be prioritising the SDC…

Every other weekend and an evening… the kids probably don’t want to spend Christmas with you. My Dad was a part time parent, a similar kind of arrangement, and there’s no way I’d have wanted to spend the special occasions with him instead of my mum. She did the majority of the parenting so our bond was with her. Sorry that doesn’t fit in with your holiday plans.

But ‘doesn’t want to fight it’ could mean anything! YOU’VE decided it equates to him not wanting his kids at Christmas — but he might not want to fight it because his ex wife would make his life really difficult if he did so, for example. (I’m not saying that is the reason because, unlike you, I’m not attributing motives to someone I don’t know.) As to a tiny amount of days — again, there’s nothing in the OP to say why that’s the case (plus I think you’re conveniently ignoring the school runs). But, as ever on MN, if there’s a divorced dad, it must all be his fault…
Anyway, we’re never going to agree on this, so I’ll leave it there.

@IridescentShadow The ExW isn't sounding very Child-focused, either.

You mean the woman who looked after them 90% of the time? The woman who has had to plan her time around her ex’s sporadic shift work pattern for however many years since they’ve split? The women who is concerned this change to how the children have always spent Christmas will be to their detriment because based on the knowledge gained within their marriage and the way he’s parents since she doesn’t think he will put in the effort to even do presents and stockings right?

It's not about male vs female. It's parent who sees them all the time vs parent who sees them about 20% of the time and their girlfriend and her children.

It doesn't sound like OP is prioritising the children and what they want (not bothered to ask!), more like she wants a couples holiday so all the children have to fit in around that, even if they have a rubbish Christmas.

It’s. Not. Childcare. When. They. Are. His. Kids.

Good Lord. “We want to be able to have time by ourselves” so essentially you want to use your ex partners for - in your own words - childcare! Your partner doesn’t do 50% of the childcare, and I’d suggest unless he wants to negotiate a formal order then he does as she asks.

Notably, she wants some extra support from him so she can work. You just want a child free vacation - you didn’t ask the kids what they want, you just want some time off. You’re unreasonable, she’s not.