To ask how to negotiate Christmas with exwife

There not equivalent examples. Where you spend Christmas isn’t the same as whether to have a vaccination or not.

If I took your words to extreme I could say ‘wow you think children should NEVER be a priority and the parents and the parents new partners should always be the priority!’

But I don’t think you mean that so why would I?

We all can do that.

I have clearly said the Op isn’t a villain. Do people think she is a villain or do some people simply think she didn’t think it out. Or probably should have taken her boyfriend at his word that it would fine.

No one is a villain. But the Man in the middle of this is the one that could have domed something to sort it all out. He is the one that messed up.

No, those were examples of other things where it is ridiculous to make what the children 'want' a priority. Sometimes people use examples to make a point that the basis of an argument is flawed.

You (and that's the plural you, before I get any more BuT I dIdNt sAy tHAT) want OP to be the villain whatever the scenario, I get it.

No one is talking about homework or vaccinations 🙄

Excuses? Excuses for what?

I am not talking about my situation. You brought your own situation into it.

I didn’t say it’s not fair for children to make children do anything they don’t want to. Why are you lying and making things up.

We are talking specifically about Christmas. Not everything that children do ever. And yes my point is people can do Christmas how they want. You were the one that Christmas must be equally split between parents I am disputing that.

If the Dad wanted to change it he should have discussed it because HE is the one that’s wants to change the set up. It’s his responsibility to start that conversation. He knows they have an adhoc schedule. Again put in place because it benefitted HIM.

Those examples are completely different to where they would prefer to spend Christmas. Why would they want to spend it with dad's new girlfriend and her kids?? Parents reap what they sow.

So she had to cope with work without a reliable ex to be able to plan around?

You've booked a holiday just for the two of you exactly when he would normally see them. Childcare is rarely available in the week between Christmas and New Year, it's very common that employers absolutely refuse to allow parents with an ex to take the time off compared to single parents (especially if they've already had to accommodate a parent being screwed over by the ex's shift pattern repeatedly). And now you're demanding that she misses out on the lead up to Christmas and doesn't work afterwards?

Your ex is presumably reliable and doesn't say 'I'm working' throughout the year and can take the time off after Christmas without problem. Your partner hasn't been predictable or helpful in that respect, so no wonder she wants to have the same arrangement she's had since they split up, rather than accommodate his new girlfriend's wishes for kids and her holiday.

No, don't be so ridiculous - children don't 'want' to do their homework, or get a vaccination as a general rule, but making what the children want a 'priority' is a pathetic manipulation. Each parent has a right to spend time with their children, that's the law.

“My partner is unwilling to fight it”

That’s it then.
Accept it.

No. Where the children want to spend Christmas should be the priority. If they don't want to spend it with 1 parent, that's the parents fault.

Was this not discussed with his ex prior to making all these plans? It doesn’t really make any sense to plan the entire two weeks if not. The children have never spent Christmas Day at your house before, so it’s a change to what has been the ‘norm’. Neither parent should be unilaterally deciding to move the goal posts, so to speak.

So many assumptions here!! So many excuses.

I brought up my kids wanting to stay with me because that was literally used as an excuse to let the kids stay with their mum over Christmas - 'its not fair to make the children do anything they don't want to'

People can do Christmases however they like but it seems that this ISN'T how the dad wants it in this case. And he, as much as people don't like it, gets a say too.

I'm not 'annoyed' with OP. Have they discussed it with the ex? seemingly not. Should they have from the grounds of common courtesy alone? of course.

But they didn't and now it seems that they won't see the children over Christmas. Their loss.

I'm also not 'annoyed' with the ex. We know very little about the situation so what's the point.

What I object to is everyone on MN assuming that the ex wife is utterly put-upon just by virtue of being the ex wife. And making ridiculous excuses for why they should be allowed to behave however they'd like. And I say this as an ex-wife who has definitely had her fair share of resentment from co-parenting.

Stepparents get a 'bad rep' when they try and do anything with the ex husband it seems.

Not really Dps ex wife has been a bit of a nightmare.

However, sometimes, I don’t agree with how she has done things but I can see her point of view.

Doesn’t take a lot to look at it from other people’s points of view.

I don’t think Op has really done anything wrong. Her boyfriend wanted to make plans and didn’t speak to his ex knowing they have an adhoc agreement. An adhoc agreement that was set up to suit him and his work. It could have been a good time to get something more regular. But he didn’t. He is the issue.

The whole ‘let’s try shut people up/ignore their opinion by claiming they can’t look at a situation from both points of view and have to be biased’ says more about your own thinking than anyone else’s.

Anyone in any of these positions could be wrong. Depending on the situation.

I think UABVU here. It seems like it’s all from your perspective of convenience when the children are with you and not at all whats best for the actual children. It is not the ex’s fault you seemed to have made massive assumptions that only suit you and your DP to have all children for a full week over Christmas then swan off for a booked holiday during new year.

Maybe your ex could ask the grandparents to have the children for a few days while you go away like other parents do if he’s that desperate to get away.

I hate these situations where children are used as convenient commodities. Why wouldn’t you want to spend some quality time with your own children and him with his? It’s not the same spending time with a parent when step parents and siblings are involved at all. Might all be roses and sunshine for you and DP but unlikely as comfortable for them.

8 & 6, they need their Mum and Dad to prioritise them! Not some new relationship and adult holidays.

Thats YOUR kids.

Many families do it different ways. Theres no one rule that says christmases have to be split completely equally.

And trying to cut everything down the middle so it’s fair for the adults, isn’t always what’s best for the kids. I am sorry your kids wouldn’t wanted to see their dad but that’s not the case for everyone.

Who is saying she only lets him see the kids when it suits her.

Again, the arrange is adhoc because for years it suited HIM. It appears it doesn’t suit him anymore but he hasn’t made a move to change it! He has been fine having it adhoc for HIS job

It suited him and now he wants to change it so he is the one that needs to start the discussion. Not just make plans the. Wonder why it’s not gone down well.

Not unreasonable for your partner to do a week on/week off arrangement, as long as he does that for the rest of the year too OP. And accepts that may differ to your childcare arrangement, meaning you end up with zero child free time. But sex is your priority here, not child arrangements so I doubt you and your partner would push for that.

I HAVE read the replies and @Flextime is bang on.

Maybe read the thread then give your opinion? Just a thought

So why aren't you annoyed at the OP?

Why aren't you annoyed that the OP and her boyfriend are instead choosing to not see his children and go on holiday instead?

If you genuinely believe the ex is preventing contact, why aren't you annoyed that the OP and her boyfriend have chosen the holiday over the children rather than going to court and getting a formal contact arrangement made?

Stepparents get a bad rep when they pull shit like the OP is. The boyfriend isn't exactly doing a Stirling job as a Dad either

you say that your DP never has his kids on christmas day, but you've only been together 2 years.. you make it out like this has been going on for years and years... i assume you can discount any christmas activities for the first 6 months as i assume you won't have been living as a blended family then.. which to my math leaves 1 christmas, perhaps last christmas.. so you've really had 1 christmas together so no routines or schedules have been settled.

and you said you had it all planned... YOU had it all planned, i assume there was no conversation before hand about how plans fitted in with your DP's EX?

and you mention his ex is using your DP for childcare! they are his kids! he's not doing anyone a favour watching them, they are his children. to be fair, by making your plans to be away for new year is using his ex as childcare whichout consultation.

That's absurd. If it was down to my children to decide when they wanted to see their dad they would never go, Christmas or not. They love their dad and he's a good father but they would always choose to stay here. And it would be so tempting for me to say 'oh they don't want to so it only 'fair' that they have what they want'. Unless I need the childcare of course - in which case dad needs to drop everything because it suits me this time?

Can you imagine that that would be in any way a reasonable arrangement? No.

Oh dear OP , not read the replies but they will be on the ex wife’s side I know that . She is the queen , you must know this . All ex wives are.You must humble yourself and know your place.

Work is a necessity, not a luxury. As the resident parent she will almost certainly be bearing most of the costs of raising their shared children.

Lots of people don't get to choose when they're working over Christmas and New Year. They ask for time off and their employer decides whether they get it or not.

Well because they have always had the arrangement that they work who has the kids around their work.

How would the ex wife magically know her ex wanted to change it this year and made plans assuming it would change.

No christmases aren’t always split.

Sometimes they are. this is an adhoc arrangement. There’s no ‘this is always split to make it fair’. That’s thinking it about fair for the parents. Not for the kids.

Maybe the kids don’t want to stay at their grandparents on Christmas Eve and would prefer to be at home. Maybe if their dad was actually staying home they would be fine. But we don’t know. Op says they do probably want to be with their mother. That’s what’s fair.

It’s an adhoc arrangement because that’s what suited the father for years. Now it doesn’t and he hasn’t don’t anything to change it. If it doesn’t suit him he needs to make the effort to put something more formal in place.

This is down to the man the story to sort.