Accusing women of being men

There’s been a push online to blur the lines between women and trans. Many of the biggest make up influencers were men and pushed a highly exaggerated drag look at women e.g massive eyelashes, extreme contouring to hide masculine features etc.

If women were made to look like trans or drag queens then trans and drag queens looked like women. Seems to be dying down a bit now.

It is purely your choice to call Khelif by the pronouns you wish. I don't choose to follow your choice.

If you seek to shame any person on this thread for correctly sexing this male person, one who has now shown the world just how harmful such an ideological view can be when laws are formed where 'gender' is placed at the same priority to sex, please understand that no one has to comply to your philosophical belief. No one. Not one of us.

Because it is because someone's gender was prioritised above the reality of their sex that Khelif was in that ring. Because in the late 1990s a campaign group decided that sex testing for some male people was an indignity. That some special male people, who had been incorrectly registered as female on their birth certificate should be able to compete in female sports based on inclusivity.

And this situation with Khelife has shown just how meaningless the language that some people demand is and how it IS based on philosophical belief. Why?

Because, the situation with the male boxers has shown us that the word 'cis' is meaningless, and always was, and based on someone's philosophical belief.

In fact, because we were reminded that 'cis' means any person 'assigned' female at birth, this also includes those male people who have been incorrectly registered as female. And I am talking about the male people who have differences of sex development where their bodies are capable of processing the testosterone that their testes produce.

What this means is that there is now no words to describe a unique group of female people that reliably means just those female people, either pre or post puberty, who have bodies that are female sexed.

Cis is a meaningless word.

In addition, we have recently been reminded that to be a person with a transgender identity is not based on having gender dysphoria. We have been told this now by professional academics as well as trans people themselves. There is only a rare group that may have gender dysphoria at all.

Therefore, the only commonality for people with transgender identities is that their philosophical belief.

Meaning no one needs to comply with another persons philosophical belief. No matter how kind or respectful that person who is trying to shame you into complying tells you that it is to use the preferred language, it is someone who is demanding that you support their own philosophical belief.

You are totally free to choose to base your own language on using the sometimes centuries old established meanings of words and the established protocols of language that are based around sex. Not someone's identity. Or you can choose to base your own language around someone's identity.

But you don't get to shame those who choose differently.

You do you. And do so with confidence. But others choose to use correct sex language for accuracy.

Sure.

No. Not always.

This is incredibly racist.

I'm not going to get into a trans bunfight on this thread but that mindset is also the root of all those ridiculous transphobes swearing they can tell a trans woman from a cis woman just by looking at them.

People can tell the difference between a male and female, yes, just by looking at them. This has been the case since the beginning of time.

I haven’t been on or commented on any other threads so stop making stuff up about me too.

You have zero evidence for your claims apart from some stuff you have read in the media. You haven’t seen her medical records - it’s all based on speculation.

And it’s utterly grim.

Yes, I believe you tried this on the other threads as well.

I think what is 'grim' and 'absolutely awful' is supporting a male boxer to punch female boxers in the face, or actually, anywhere.

No one is 'scraping' around for evidence. It is all out there in the public domain.

But do, please continue to denigrate people who disagree with you own blinkered view that supports male people punching female people in the face. Well done you!

SHE

And as to whether Khelif should have to provide personal information.

As Khelif knows very well that they are a male person with a difference of sex development that allows Khelif's body to process testosterone for virilisation, Khelif should actually have the respect for female people and their needs for safety and not be punching female people in a boxing ring.

They should not have to provide personal information. They should actually just have the respect to have withdrawn from the Olympics and any other female boxing event. No need at all to make public why.

However, they chose to not do that .

OMG just listen to yourself.

It’s utterly grim speculating about the chromosomes of an athlete in the public domain because you think something. And now you are scraping around to find evidence for it.

This thread is absolutely awful, it really is.

I don't think that's true - it was the boxer's own team who said there was a "problem" with her chromosomes wasn't it?

The 'Russian led committee'?

The outcomes of the tests were viewed and accepted by the IBA, WBC and the EBC. The outcomes of the tests were announced by Dr. Ioannis Filippatos, a Greek IVF obstetric / gynacologist who has a sports medicine expertise as well.

I agree that Khelif should not have to give out personal information.

However, Khelif's team did indeed give testimony that another Parisian Endocrinologist also stated that Khelif did not have 'typical female chromosomes'. And reported that Khelif was being treated by an Algerian doctor who was giving Khelif 'testosterone suppression' treatment.

No female athlete has to suppress their testosterone. Only male athletes who have been allowed to access female sports categories.

You can keep trying to twist Khelif's situation as being comparable to Michelle Obamas. However it is not.

It is also not even relevant.

Michelle Obama is not involved in anything that requires her to be female. She is not playing in a female sport's category. She is not providing care where she needs to be female for the needs of the person receiving care.

So, again. Your comparison is irrelevant but also based on misinformation.

ALLEGEDLY

The boxer didn't just not conform to female stereotypes, she didn't conform to female chromosomes..

It hasn’t been commented on by her medical team because why the fuck should she have to parade her medical information in the public domain.

The Russian led committee that started all of this were discredited also.

It’s just utterly grim hypocrisy.

That was Exhibit A of how transphobia naturally extended to hounding women who weren't even trans.

Again, the two scenarios are not comparable at all.

There were no medical doctors stating that Michelle Obama is a male person. There are now two medical specialists stating that Khelif has chromosomes that are not XY. And there are three medical specialists who have declared that Khelif has testosterone sensitivity meaning that Khelif is male and has gone through male puberty.

And not one of those medical specialists have been shown to be giving false information. It has not even been denied by Khelif or Khelif's team.

So, either you didn't read enough to inform yourself on this issue, despite obviously reading the thread, or you just choose to ignore the reported medical specialist's statements.

It's not surprising to me. At school, the first thing that bullies (of either sex) pick on is their target's gender identity. Boy bullies called the smaller boys "girly", "sissy" etc. Girl bullies called the girls who didn't conform to conventional beauty standards "manly" or "tranny".

Some people never get out of that mindset even as adults.

The point about "masculine" insults historically aimed at Black women is also important (as well as Michelle Obama and the Williams sisters, I remember the R&B singer Ciara getting these insults).

I'm not going to get into a trans bunfight on this thread but that mindset is also the root of all those ridiculous transphobes swearing they can tell a trans woman from a cis woman just by looking at them. Suspecting anyone who doesn't look conventionally feminine of being trans is just an excuse to point fingers at women who don't "perform" gender correctly - butch women, tall women, women who prefer "masculine" clothes - whether they're trans or not.

What, like the Algerian boxer that bloody JK Rowling is obsessed with despite absolutely no credible medical evidence being made public to prove her allegations.

So it’s misogyny when it Michelle Obama but not when it’s an Algerian female boxer who doesn’t conform to female gender stereotypes.

There was a whole fucking thread on Mumsnet about it and how she must be a man - incredible hypocrisy as ever.

What annoys me is that nutty comments on X or wherever are given credence by supposed journalists /tv preventers etc as if there is actually something to discuss and debate.
Just ignore Fgs

“If what you r saying is true why do women as well as men think Michelle Obama is a man to. I see many examples on Twitter”

For a start, people are not using real life meetings with Michelle Obama to base those judgments on. The reasons they are also making these spurious claims has been well discussed already in this thread.

The people doing so are not doing so from any knowledgeable position and often for some kind of political gain. That you think those treating Michelle Obama this way have anything in common with women stating that they can correctly sex a male person so that male person should not be in female single sex spaces is absurd.

But you are the one doing it.

Also just because others are interested in campaigning to preserve the needs of female people, doesn’t give you the right to denigrate them.

Obviously, it makes you feel great to do so, so do continue. It makes it clear though that you have nothing but mantra like phrases to support what you say. And those reading along can see that and can see your mischaracterisations of the points people make to support your prejudiced view about women who have different views to you.

“it’s not all women it’s some women because most women go by their day-to-day life, and they’re not bothered if somebody is trans-or not, you’re not in the real world”.

How remarkable. You must live a very privileged life if you cannot think of any reason why female people need single sex spaces in their everyday lives. Or that female people don’t need to know what sex their care giver or health care professional is. Or for their child or their family member for safeguarding confidence.

Good for you. I am very glad you have that privileged life. Because the alternative to that is that you simply lack empathy for the female people who do have those needs. Which is it?

For someone accusing others of being “fucking obsessed with trans people”, it’s notable that @Daltonbear1 is the person bringing them into the conversation.

Strong, assertive women get accused of being men because in a patriarchy only men are strong and powerful leaders. If a woman is strong rather than submissive, assertive rather than conciliatory, outperforms blokes in their sphere, she must therefore be accused of being a man. If she doesn’t conform to the male gaze standards of femininity, the accusations double down.

A propos Margaret Thatcher, I remember Francois Mitterrand saying “she has the eyes of Caligula and the mouth of Marilyn Monroe”