Dd screams for hours if she doesn't get her own way

What utter nonsense. If a child is screaming that they’re not going to eat their food unless you add extra cheese to it, and you’ve already said that’s not going to happen, how will it be resolved? If a child screams that they’re not going to bed without their phone and you’ve already told them they can’t have it, how is that going to be resolved? Who’s in charge? “Not the 6 year old” is the correct answer. Children need boundaries; there seem to be none in this situation.

Absolutely this

With bells on.

Like some pp I agree that Nd should be explored. Hours of screaming is pretty extreme even if it's a learned behaviour and you should just check that nothing is being missed there.

Regardless of the cause unfortunately the solution is the same. Of course she can be allowed completely control in some areas e.g. what she wears at the weekend, but there is so much at 6 that is none negotiable.

I would approach it just like sleep training a baby. It will be rough for a few days or weeks but hopefully improve life for everyone.

Does your elder daughter have somewhere she can go for a long weekend? Friend of grandmas house? So you aren't worrying about the effect on her. Possibly warn the neighbours too!

My youngest is four and has done similar tendancies but dh and I are quiet introverted type so are very impatient with any prolonged screaming or moaning and whining. They get sent out of the room to 'calm down' usually sitting at the bottom of the stairs.

The contrast with her cousin who has been brought up when imo badly applied 'gentle parenting' and has tantrums and smashes things is stark they are very similar personality wise so I'm relieved we have such a low tolerance.

You need to make up a bed for the older sister elsewhere - camp bed in your room or blankets on the couch for a few weeks until you have reprogrammed younger DD.

If DD is really tired by 7, maybe start bedtime earlier. Does she actually need a shower every night?

I strongly recommend the book Good Inside by Dr Becky Kennedy.

I disagree with the 'next time' argument.

The OP could have given her DD extra cheese along with praise for asking politely if she asked politely, and the comment that cheese is good for our bones.

She could still say no to sweets or staying up past midnight watching slasher movies. "I can't let you have sweets/ watch that movie," is an appropriate response, along with an acknowledgement that the DD may feel angry or disappointed or frustrated not to hear you say yes.

It would be important with this child to sit down with her when she's calm to talk about feelings, and to emphasise the fact that feeling angry or frustrated or disappointed or wanting something really badly are just feelings, and we can let them pass through us without losing control of ourselves. In the OP's shoes, I'd ask the DD how she feels when mum says no, and tell her whatever the feeling is, it's OK to feel that even if the feeling isnt a happy one. But I'd add that, "I can't let you think that screaming for something will result in getting it."

Sometimes encouraging politeness and giving a little takes the tension and the confrontational element out of the picture. Sometimes a little predictability and a little more flexibility about what's allowed can go a long way too - serve a bowl of cheese / bottle of ketchup, etc, along with dinner, make sure there's a water bottle by DD's bed, etc.
But I would definitely make sure that the phone was "lost" or "broken" and can't be replaced. Children should not have the experience of dissociating from their surroundings with a personal device. It is disastrous for their social skills and emotional development.

This is a child who has lost confidence in her parents' ability to be the family leaders thanks to the vicious circle they're all stuck in. Conversations about emotions need to be started by the parents, and the DD needs to be guided into recognizing and living with uncomfortable feelings no matter how loud or long she screams.

This sounds very difficult op.

I think a few things to consider are giving her as much controlled choice as possible. Eg do you want to wear this or this today? Giving her lots of opportunities to do things for herself that you can then praise her for. Eg. Small age appropriate tasks around the house, helping with cooking, helping clear up, serving herself things like cheese from a small bowl designed to be shared by everyone at the table. Making sure you set yourself up to reduce the pressure on you when the tantrums inevitably start. Eg leave earlier in the mornings so if she kicks off you're not under pressure to get out the door to help you stay calm. You and your dh need to be a team, on the same page all the time. Tag team it, she kicks off you take turns "supporting her" through it. I personally don't advocate leaving a child to it, but I would let her cry and scream while saying, "I know it's really hard to want something you can't have" or "it can be really disappointing being told no" - would you like a hug? You're not giving in to her, she's not getting what she wants, but you're still there in the moment with her helping her through the tantrum. Remind yourself that it will end and your job is just to support her through it. I'd pick your battles, if it's not a big deal then do say yes. Personally I would do away with the phone - games like that are designed to entice further playing and a child won't be able to self regulate enough to resist that. And I'd make one to one time with each of your children so they are both getting quality time with you. Never compare them.

Just out of curiosity if you had visitors over for dinner and things weren’t going her way, would she scream and scream?

Do you have more then one child? Because I have one that has always fallen asleep easily, practically put himself to bed with a book from a young age because he knows when he's tired, likes to go to bed and falls asleep easily. My youngest however took me hours to get to bed until nearly five. They're older now and still find it very difficult to get to sleep. Children are not all the same, and there can be loads of reasons for behaviors, some children need more input and support at bedtime, and it doesn't mean you've failed as a parent! They need what they need, and it isn't necessarily anything you've done or haven't done - we tried dozens and dozens of strategies with our youngest and it really made very little difference.

I'm always a bit surprised when people write things like just say no, just make them go to bed, put them on the naughty step, take their things away, make a sticker chart etc. With my explosive child (the good sleeper), taking things away, escalating disagreements just made things so much worse. He just needed help calming down, he was struggling with lots of anger - when he was older he was able to explain he didn't know why he got so upset - we learnt we need to give him a way out of those situations, he needed us to be very calm, not to pile on the shame (which he reacts very strongly to) and punishments. The difference in him was incredible.

All eat together. Put various foods to help yourselves to on the table. Cucumbers,olives, other salads, grated cheese,pasta, bread,sausages, whatever you are serving.
everyone helps themselves, however messy it seems.
once an item has gone it’s not replaced.
Do same with deserts. Fruits, ice cream, etc.
Help yourselves.
if you don’t eat, you leave the room.
Calm. Conversations about the day/ the week end, a funny tale etc.
Bath/story.cuddles and bed.

The games on these phones make children extremely cranky when they're removed. Hundred percent go cold turkey and certainly don't use them before bed, they're terrible for sleep.

I would ask your school if they do any little focus groups about emotions and feelings. Or if she can go on the waiting list for play therapy ( if they're lucky enough to have one ) Anger is a huge emotion to deal with and these things might help her process some of it.

My Gds is the same. A big eater who always wants cereal shortly before bedtime. He’s pretty non stop active and skinny as a rake.

Some kids are negative attention as attention and don’t mind that it isn’t pleasant. My middle child was like this from 2-7 and it was hell for us. He wasn’t screaming and tantrum Ming but he cried about everything and acted up for attention. It was really rough but he outgrew it and became a lovely thoughtful person.

I would recommend one on one time with her when she is a good, sticker chart and absolutely no response to the screaming. It’s tough but after a few weeks of nobody giving in she will quit

I have no answers for you OP - single parent of one fairly quiet child. But just sending support that you came on here to ask. There are some brilliant parents on here and it does sound like you will have to brave it out for a period but equally that ‘reward’ thing mentioned by PP’s will be a factor and it’s tricky to get that right without ‘folding’ too soon. One tip that I did find useful for scoping out behavioural kinks in my DD was to put her in the bath. Sit on the edge and have a big ‘chat’ about how she is feeling after she has had one of these rants and you will sometimes find the answer that way. It’s got to be exhausting on her. Best of luck.

There's two potential answers to this.
Ome is she's learned to get her own way by doing this and she needs to unlearn it. Pre-empt the screaming where you can, warn her what will happen if she kicks off and stand firm, don't give in under any circumstances if she starts.
Two, could be there are some underlying SEN or mental health issues setting her off?
For years I thought my daughter was just stubborn, difficult, bad tempered etc...
But we now know she's autistic, high masking, probably pda aswell and has extreme anxiety.
She's not a screamer, but in similar situations she would simply refuse to eat the rest of the food without the extra cheese or something. An overwhelmed child will go into fight/flight/freeze mode. Screaming is a fight response, my dd has more of a freeze response.
She can't help it, as much as it seems like pig headed awkward and demanding behaviour, it's a neurological response that's beyond her control.
So in my situation I'd give the cheese when she asked because we are trying to practice low demand parenting.
You have to pick your battles and don't sweat the small stuff. It's hard, and feels very much like a backward step when it comes to parenting and disciplining a child but it's what the experts recommend. Even so, sen children still need boundaries, you have to set them where needed and relax them where it doesn't matter..
My dd is 13, if she wants to watch a 15 movie that's fine, but I say no to most 18s. Bed time is 9.30pm.but if she pisses about till 10.30 I hold back and keep gently encouraging her to get on with it rather than demanding she gets to bed now!
If she wants to eat at the coffee table I let her (I used insist they eat at the table but if we can remove one demand she's likely to tolerate the demand to eat her meal better so I allow it)
Even with an NT child, sometimes lowering demands and picking your battles can help, particularly in times of increased anxiety or stress. But don't give in after the screaming fits, that's only going to reinforce that behaviour. Just ask yourself, does a bit of extra cheese matter that much? Would it hurt to say okay u can have some extra cheese BUT there's no more after this and no pudding if you don't finish it all or something along those lines. So your saying yes but only on your terms.
And make it clear no means no and it will continue to mean no regardless of how she responds to that!
If she feels like you say no all the time she will be gearing herself up for the tantrum before she's even asked the question. Ask yourself, is this battle worthwhile? Is it something that will cause issues if I allow it? Is a bit of extra cheese the hill u want to die on? I know there's more to this than the cheese but it's a good example and when you break it down, a lot of the small things are equally not a big deal and probably not worth the drama they are causing.
So I guess I'm saying, try to say no a bit less often, but when you say it make sure you mean it!

Wow, she would be in her room and invited to scream until she’s exhausted/realises that this is not the means to get her way. She needs to learn that this is not acceptable behaviour - and certainly not a way to negotiate.

No eye contact, no conversation, dinner in the bin, carry to her (safe) room, and be prepared to spend a horrible two weeks to prevent years of the same behaviour. You can do this.

Hello! I really recommend the podcast respectful parenting xxx hope it helps, it helps me

I feel like dominating the child will not get you far in the long run.

Reposition your thnking - agree to listen to her arguments and cave in, let her win from time to time. The big stuff no - but the small stuff yes.

IMO this is very improtant for young children - it builds self esteem. There is recognition, "I see you, I am listening to you, you are important" BUT for it to work she must also see you, listen to you and recognize you. If you work that premise and make it mutual you could solve this fairly quickly.

Yes, that too! That is really nice!

connect before you correct. Children do have a few boxes to fill each day and they will have them filled negatively if they aren’t filled positively.

💪🏼

you got it op!! She is loved and you try. You are a very good mom.

How do parents get themselves into these issues? Your main job as a parent create an adult that can survive on their own!
The only thing I can suggest is you listen to the people who said set boundaries. Do it before she's violent.

When you have firmly told her no to something specific, if she starts screaming, warn her calmly that she needs to stop. If she continues, can you make her go to her room, or some other place until she's calmed down? I know it's not so simple, but make it clear to her that it's not acceptable for other family members to have to put up with her screaming. She's old enough to understand.

The 1950s called. It wants its outdated cruelty back.

My 15 year old was very similar at that age and my god she had stamina. We were so ground down by it all and for many years were all totally frazzled. I remember doing that gradual withdrawal for sleep for example and every step took months and months of her screaming and we never properly cracked it. Turns out she is AuDHD and on reflection, a lot of her behaviour was linked to this need to control a world that she didn’t feel very in control of. However, I still believe ND kids need and can understand boundaries but they probably just need more awareness of where they are. Some battles definitely aren’t worth having though so you have to become very good at making quick decisions you can stick with.

I don't want to be mean, but that sounds like you're allowing your parenting to be motivated by spite.