Dd screams for hours if she doesn't get her own way

Taking the easy way in the moment creates the hard way for a lifetime.

Saying no all the time is as easy as saying yes all the time and both cause the screaming and angry behaviours we are seeing in the DD.

The hard part is actually taking the time to judge when to say no and when to say yes. The DD’s behaviour is being caused by too many nos, it’s not being caused by too many yeses.

That’s what you have missed in all this.

If you read the updates, she asked for cheese without screaming. The screaming started after the OP had said no, no and no several times.

The dynamic isn’t that the child starts with screaming. The child starts by asking and after being repeatedly told no for imho minor reasonable requests, her behaviour escalates to screaming.

@Yourethebeerthief
”Not a child who is lost in chaos because mum and dad are not being parents, not keeping order for them, are running about like headless chickens whenever they are asked for any random demand. That's fun for a child to begin with as they boss mum and dad about, but it doesn't last long. It's confusing when the adults don't act like adults.”

^This is clutching at straws especially when you literally wrote that you do allow your child a drink of water at bedtime, unlike the OP. So were you being a headless chicken by running to fulfill that random demand?

And while your early waking child can listen to a Yoto player, a child using an iPad to read or listen to is “seriously lax parenting”? The only difference between the two is one is audio only and the other is audio and visual. They play the same things…like podcasts. In fact there is a Yoto app for the iPad!! 😂

Summer fever. It's not about cheese. It's about how she asks for cheese. Screaming for more and refusing to ear her meal until she gets some = no cheese. The same applies to any food the daughter demands in this way.

Gosh, this can be so hard and draining. One of my Darlings is a picky eater, which can further complicate things. She’s also started to imitate the behaviours of our beloved (but wild!) neighbour’s kids. Keep putting your foot down. It can feel like forever before changes occur, but trust me, they will. You’ve just gotta stick to your guns. I say that knowing that it is indeed exhausting. Best of luck, and solidarity! X

My daughter is very similar, very rigid and triggered massively by disappointment. We've had a lot of help through school and assessment for ND. Happy to chat if you want to private message me.

You need to literally walk away from screaming. My DD did it for a year, but age 3 til age 4. I thought it would never end, tried everything, eventually just ignored it - no reaction whatsoever and she stopped. She is 16 now and tells me that having a good scream is really cathartic, but only if she's on a fairground ride.

👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻

@SummerFeverVenice

Some parents think it is fine to run around at bedtime bringing their child everything they ask for, even if it is a 6 year old asking to play on their phone. That's your style of parenting. It certainly isn't mine.

I prefer the kind of parenting that says bedtime and means bedtime. A drink of water, cuddles, sharing a story and lights out. A solid routine that makes my child feel secure because he knows what is happening and knows his mum and dad are here with him sharing this calm moment. Not a child who is lost in chaos because mum and dad are not being parents, not keeping order for them, are running about like headless chickens whenever they are asked for any random demand. That's fun for a child to begin with as they boss mum and dad about, but it doesn't last long. It's confusing when the adults don't act like adults.

I also don’t see any issue with giving a child a quiet way to play if they are an early riser? We all have different biological clocks. What is wrong with some parts of parenting being less difficult? And how could a child playing quietly at 4am possibly create a whole world of problems? (Seems a bit paranoid).

I have no issue whatsoever with making parenting easier- which is why I don't let my child act like a brat as the OP has done. It's easier for everyone in the long run to raise a child who is not screaming for hours over phones and bedtime or more and more cheese on their dinner. Taking the easy way in the moment creates the hard way for a lifetime. I know what I'd rather do.

I have a 3 year old who sometimes wakes at 6 and knows he can read his books and listen to his Yoto player until 7. I have no problem with a child quietly playing in their bedroom until the rest of the house is up for the day, I was raised the same way. Putting that in the same category as giving a 2 year old an iPad at 4am until half past 6 is some seriously lax parenting. What a low bar. That child is waking at 4am still now because their brain is wired for the dopamine hit of endless hours scrolling kids YouTube alone.

You're clutching at straws to call anyone paranoid or tyrannical who can use their common sense to see why the OP's parenting has caused this brattish behaviour. She can fix it though, thankfully, as long as she doesn't listen to advice like yours on this thread.

Sympathies to you OP, I’ve been there myself many years ago and it’s a hard journey to navigate. These days I’d be saying to her once very firmly that only toddlers and babies scream and if she wants to scream then she can be treated like a baby. That means no friends over, no phone, no screen time, early bed time - you get the jist and just let her scream it out and ignore her. She will only be able to scream for so long before her throat hurts and she will soon learn the hard way. If she starts screaming don’t give her any eye contact or any attention until she wants to be calm. Don’t tell her to stop, don’t acknowledge she’s screaming at all and just go into a different room and keep doing so until she realises it won’t get her anywhere.

Screaming is massively annoying but it won’t kill her. When my son was younger he would throw awful tantrums and break things as a punishment for me not giving him what he wanted. Eventually after countless things were broken including my spirit I toughened up and things that were broken went in the bin and were not replaced. His “fun stuff” was confiscated and proper consequences were put in place for his actions as a deterrent and as hard as it was at the time I stuck to it and it eventually paid off. He’s now a well mannered, respectful young man and it feels like I’m talking about someone else’s child now because he’s such a different person.

Your daughter has realised that screaming sooner or later gets her what she wants. If it didn’t then she wouldn’t do it because she doesn’t do it at school and stops when she gets what she wants so it’s not a meltdown and she is very much in control of her actions. Shamelessly when I was her age and a bit older I’d worked out if I wanted a toy from the shop for example then if I played my mum up and kept on relentlessly she would eventually give in. She didn’t have a disciplinary bone in her body god bless her. My dad on the other hand was a completely different story. I daren’t have played him up in a month of Sundays because I knew there would be big trouble if I did and he wouldn’t have taken a single second of my nonsense.

Children can be wonderful and kind and on the other hand if they know it’s advantageous to them they can be manipulative just as adults can be. Children need firm boundaries and routines because when they know where the line is it makes them feel secure. Good luck OP.

1. Don't get into a power struggle about cheese.
2. Don't tolerate the screaming.
3. Assuming that there is more cheese available, tell her that she can have more cheese if she asks nicely. If she's screaming and being abusive, then there is no more cheese. That makes it about her behaviour.
4. If she asks nicely, and there is cheese available, give it to her.
5. If she screams and screams, then don't give it to her.
6. Rinse and repeat.
7. Reinforce good behaviour, don't reward bad behaviour.
8. Don't hold arbitrary boundaries.
9. Make your expectations of her behaviour clear. Be firm but kind.
10. Don't impose unrelated consequences (what does wanting more cheese have to do with having friends over on the weekend?). That sort of thing feels punitive, without clearly communicating what the problem behaviour the child needs to correct is.

If there is another issue (e.g. she only wants to eat cheese, and you want her to eat some more of her dinner, then explain what the problem is and what she needs to do to get more cheese - "Try your bolognese without the cheese first and see if you like it. If you don't, I'll give you more cheese, but you have to try eating it with the bolognese.") I think it's up to each individual family where they would draw the line, in terms of food, but I personally would not have a problem with a child who did not like bolognese, but did like cheese, asking for more cheese to get them through the meal. In fact, I actively encourage my kids to think of what they can add to their meals to make their food tasty to them, so that we all eat the same food. Some people just like lots of cheese on their pasta.

The problem here isn't the cheese, it's the behaviour. You have to focus on what the actual problem is.

I did mention in my initial post, that I also see nothing wrong with a child wanting a drink, a snack, a toy or a phone to play a game on for a few minutes before lights out. The list seems to me like the child is always told no to everything and anything on auto-pilot. And then it becomes a battle of screaming just to get a glass of water before bed or to have a toy in bed with her etc,

And why is the child unreasonable for asking for any of these perfectly reasonable things?

They aren’t imho. I don’t understand why the OP has said no to any of it. I haven’t ignored it, I have been repeating the cheese because I think it is the most petty and ridiculous of the examples.

I also don’t see any issue with giving a child a quiet way to play if they are an early riser? We all have different biological clocks. What is wrong with some parts of parenting being less difficult? And how could a child playing quietly at 4am possibly create a whole world of problems? (Seems a bit paranoid).

You do sound very tyrannical in the way you write. Calling simple, reasonable requests bullshit and framing them as demands.

Wow. I can’t find anything I agree with in your post.
The idea that refusing cheese teaches lessons about ice cream/chocolate is patently ridiculous. It confuses healthy food with sweets, and can contribute to disordered eating habits. It’s just exercising power and settimg up a battle of wills for the hell of it, because you can.

It matters what we choose as boundaries, and yes picking minor things is something to be critical of because it is counter productive to raising a healthy, well behaved child.

Intermittent reinforcement. You need to get on top of it asap.

@SummerFeverVenice

We must be reading different threads then because a child who demands constant drinks, toys, snacks, the OP's phone (!) at bedtime, sounds to me like a child who has a serious lack of boundaries.

Everyone focusing on the cheese is ignoring the fact that it's just another thing in a long list of demands from OP's daughter.

The OP has given in far too many times and shown her daughter that screaming gets what she wants. She has a lot of work ahead to undo this. Reminds me of a friend of mine who wonders why her 4 year old wakes at 4am every morning and has done from the age of too. Coincidentally when she wakes up they give her an iPad so they can go back to bed. "It's just easier for everyone" she says. Well the OP is an example of what's easy to begin with eventually creates a whole world of problems.

Being a good parent means taking the difficult route for the sake of raising likeable human beings for the rest of society. The OP should have nipped the bedtime bullshit and all the other demands in the bud long ago. You don't have to be a tyrant to achieve that.

@SummerFeverVenice cheese is an appropriate boundary for the op. And it would be for me. Because A) the child is likely to just eat the cheese and not the rest of the meal, b) the rest of the cheese might be earmarked for another meal, c) consistency us key, do if she's learning this about cheese, ot stops her screaming the place down for more ice cream, chocolate, biscuits.
also, I'm not judging why the op chose it as her boundary, I'm just using it as an example.
Boundaries don't just refer to crossing the road, or no hitting, they are needed in every aspect of life. And before people get upset that im controlling my kids, I mean we all live by rules, and it's your job, as parents, to help them understand. This means setting boundaries, like meal time etiquette, bed time routine, manners and so on. It's often the less obvious boundaries that send kids spiralling in my experience.

I don’t think this child is being given an inch. I think it is the opposite problem actually, too many boundaries being invoked capriciously on minor and major things causing massive confusion and understandable distress.

The problem with too many boundaries is that means there then are no boundaries.

If there are many things big or small that the child has no autonomy over- it is a “no” and the parent never gives in, or gives in after a lot of screaming, then the child has no idea what is a big thing or a small thing. Everything is a battle, big or small. It is very confusing to them to be shown hypothetically that going without extra cheese is of equal importance to brushing teeth

It is in the case of a child who has been given an inch and is taking a mile.

The OP has lost all boundaries to the point where her child is screaming for hours over anything she wants. The cheese would be gone from my house so fast in response to a child who behaved that way.

I agreed with you seaside until you used cheese as an example of an appropriate firm boundary. It really isn’t.

Firm boundaries should be things like we don’t ever hit, or don’t cross the road without holding my hand, or never scream swear words at anyone as it is disrespectful.

That’s probably for the best @Baffled78 because I don’t think you’ve ever met a 6 yr old.

OP I feel for you and I think your daughter needs very firm boundaries. You’ll get there eventually but it sounds like it’ll be a slog

What a little madam. Can't blame her, you created this monster. You'd better reel it in quick or you'll have raised a child that no one likes which is utter cruelty in my opinion.

It will take weeks of you not giving in anymore.

Your daughter is literally screaming out for boundaries and consistency.

She needs you to be parents. When you say no, you mean no, and you stick to it. What I found d with my kids, is they would push the boundaries, and you stretch a little to allow them to grow and become independent. But if you don't keep them within a boundary, in tour case, she's allowed to scream until she gets her way, she will feel out of control.

Kids of 6 want the adult to be the adult.

I'd recommend speaking to her during a calm period and tell her you will no longer respond to her screams. She will be ignored until she calms down and fi ds a way to communicate with you.

Like this 'mum, I want more cheese on my spaghetti bolognese.' 'No' 'but I really like it'. 'OK, you can have what's in the bowl, but once it's gone, that's it. You get to choose how you eat the cheese.'

Then don't give her any more, even if she screams the place down. Eventually she will realise that communication is key, and your boundaries are firm.

I feel like @Baffled78 has never met a 6 year old. Or any child between the ages of tiny baby and 6. Children absolutely have coherent thoughts. Just because brain development continues until at least aged 26 (and the research didn't say that it was "complete" at 26, they stopped the study at 26 and found that brains were still developing) doesn't mean that everyone under 26 is an incoherent mess and immediately becomes a logical adult on their birthday. The fact that children are not fully able to grasp long term consequences is exactly why it's so important to actually parent them with clear boundaries.

Yes my thoughts too as boundaries are for important things, not everything and they do have to be shifted as the child grows up and matures or as circumstances change. So there is a gradual reassessment and shifting of boundaries. Shouldn’t have to be battles and screaming for child & parents to discuss and shift or modify or make an exception to a boundary.

Life is that way- every rule has exceptions. If there is a conflict it is up to the parent to convince the child as to why the no is the right choice in the circumstance. Just like a 6yr old can manipulate, they can also be reasoned with and they can smell bullshit. The “because I said so” reason doesn’t wash with them.