WFH - What is reasonable?

Why ? If the work is being done ? Who cares where the location is ? Would you be saying the same to a person sitting in the canteen of a factory ?
Op - i couldn't work like this - if you were in the office physically there will be times like you have explained that your TEAMS will go amber. Talking to a colleague for a while in the corridor (and not about work ) Walking to the toilet or canteen - where my office is its an age to walk, being in a meeting etc. Its micro managing . Who has the time to monitor the TEAMS colour? I would be looking for a new job

This is toxic culture for sure. I work from home and am free to manage appointments, take time when needed and am measured on output not presenteeism. Saying that though, there is a clear expectation that you are present for normal working hours as standard, that you’re not looking after a kid as well as working (emergencies accepted) and that generally you are working hard. Some people respect this, some take the piss but ultimately those people can be managed as the piss taking is obvious. Managing everyone as though they are a piss taker is not the way to run a business! This kind of monitoring reminds me of my student call centre job where you had to put a toilet code into the phone system when popping to the loo and would get called up if you’d been gone too long.

focusing on productivity is much more important than focusing on the minutes that you’re away from your desk.

Cool 👌 bet you stand there chatting to other colleagues though.

I wfh quite a bit and what you do sounds normal to me. I have no set hours and do not usually have to respond to anything quickly. I work 7 hours between 8am-6pm, whatever works for me and no need to put anything on my calendar. However, if i had meetings or similar, I would be expected to attend at this time, and this hasn't been a problem.

I also do things like: (albeit not that often, maybe twice a month)

-Take a long lunch break (1.5 hours) to attend a meeting at DC's school or have lunch with a friend.

-Go for a 30 min walk

-Work from a coffee shop for a couple of hours (15 mins walk away).

-Take the kids to the park after school for an hour or so

I would do the same in the office. It is not tracked and we are trusted to get the work done. I have been in the industry for 25 years and I trust myself to manage my time to get the job done well within my hours.

I know not everywhere is like this and I do really appreciate it.

I also work from home and get more done at home - doing the little bits you said also, putting the washing on/hanging it out, nipping to the shops for some milk - than I do in the office. Coffee breaks, actually taking a lunch hour because it's social, talking to someone you pass on the way to the printer...and if I smoked I'm sure it would be even worse.
Seems a bit strange they check up on you after 10mins but require you to work away/early nights etc. toxic workplace, I couldn't cope with it.
I'm surprised the amount of people that think it's taking the piss, as I'm assuming you're not talking to the neighbour, working for a cafe and getting chocolate all on the same day, every day, more like one 15min every so often - I must have been really lucky in my previous companies.

OP, I have a similar job to you, and have been fully virtual for 4 years and can flex my days similar to you, and make up for it by either working late or having a short lunch etc. When we worked in the office, we'd often do a 45 min lunch, and mid morning do a coffee run outside, or similar.

Your boss is being a knob! Surely you can go for a toilet break / lunch etc without having to sit at your desk? What's your co policy on lunch - are you expected to work through it?
To get round the status issue on Teams, I do two things:

1. I block time with myself in a meeting for my lunch; shows up as a red on teams
2. set your status and duration to busy or DnD; if you right click on that, there's a duration button that allows you to set how long you want to be busy / away etc for (it's not enabled on all versions of Teams)

And to be clear it sounds like your issue is you thought your current employer offered flexibility but they clearly don't.

I’ve found the opposite - I work in a corporate field and the more senior I get, the more flexibility I’m offered - along with higher pay

I said "except for breaks".

What, loads do.

I mean if you're taking it literally , of course you can actually physically walk out while you're om shift. But you would be disciplined for it.

A nurse can't just walk off to the shops for 30 minutes for chocolate, when she is meant to be looking after sick children, can she?

She would be disciplined for it

You need to look for employers offering flexible working as well as wfh. They are separate. Some will offer both, some neither, others 1 or the other.

It might be called flexitime, flexible working etc.

I think its more common in public sector & charity roles, than corporate, and often goes hand in hand with slightly less competitive pay (imho) - where people accept it because the flexibility is valuable to them. The thing of having young kids at home after school seems to be openly allowed in the public sector, but tends to be explicitly prohibited in corporates.

What's your point? You told us you are not allowed to pop out for 25 mins. Some people are, some people aren't.

I work in a similar role (PMO) and we have a hybrid work model - 2 days in the office, 3 WFH

In both environments our hours are totally flexible and we are trusted to get the job done. Officially hours are 8.30 - 5 but people work round school runs, can pop out if they need to, go to the gym at lunchtime etc. We are allowed to choose the days we work from home as long as we are there for any important meetings. We all work hard and are flexible ourselves and this level of flexibility brings loyalty and hard work from your employees.

Expecting you to be at your desk 9-5pm with no movement is so old fashioned! Especially when your job is not client facing or impacting anyone else’s work and you work and travel out of hours. Smacks of poor management to me.

What kind of job doesn’t let you leave the premises?! That sounds bizarre!

Of course. And i can say the same to you. A lot of companies will not let you go out of the building, if not on a break

If you're working in a job where you're out and about dining guests, the company would be of course fine with you going out and about.

But if you're in a desk based office job, a lot of jobs will not let you leave the premises, except for breaks.

OP said she popped out to the shop for chocolate.

She probably should ask if that's acceptable, before she does it

Reading your list of excuses it's amazing you actually still have a job. Unbelievable tbh.

OP I’ve also WFH for 8 years and think your new boss is being very unreasonable!

I work exactly as you described. I take flexibility during the day when needed and work at night to catchup.

I couldn’t work for a company like yours.

I think you should have a frank conversation with your manager to align expectations from both sides. You need to know where they stand and then decide if this role is right for you.

You must surely know that not all companies have the same working practices.

Open notepad pop something on your keyboard which initiates typing , job done

@Nutellla ,

‘Does any have any insight on how I go about asking about WFH culture in an interview? Or how I explain why I am leaving my role after 6 months? My employment history shows that I have stayed in previous jobs between 4 and 13 years, so I don't frequently move positions and I think it will raise questions.’

Honesty is always the best policy.

You say you don’t feel that you are being treated like an adult professional and you don’t like being micromanaged.

You tell them the flexibility you require and what they will get in return (which, from what you say, is lots).

They can then decide whether to employ you or not. Personally, I think someone who can manage their own time and prioritise is a great employee.

Then, if they do offer you employment, check the contract carefully and make sure it is at least skewed to what you want .

Yes I can stay in our office building to make coffee.

I was replying to the OPs point where she said she went out to the shop for fifteen minutes, to get chocolate. And a later poster who said it's fine to pop out for coffee

I definitely wouldn't be allowed to leave my office to go to a shop to get coffee or chocolate.

I actually used to do a full time work from home job. Before my current office job.

I never went out to the shop when I was in my work from home Job either. You have to be at the desk

I’d absolutely argue this as well - my job involves reading and amending very lengthy and technical contracts and there’s no way someone could do that for 8 hours straight - you would be making mistakes by the end, 100%

Theres a difference between making a coffee in a break room and leaving the premises which "pop out" implies.

I think it depends so much on the role and company ethos. I have never minded people popping out for coffee or even brunch/a long lunch or whatever. But overall these are people who work long hours and into the weekend when needed so I would be very petty to police their lives minute by minute

But you choosing not to take breaks is just that - your choice. It doesn't make you a better or more efficient worker than someone who does take five minutes to answer the door or hang the washing out.

In fact, I'd even argue that working for hours on end without even getting up to stretch, move around or use the toilet is pretty unhealthy, especially when you're doing it day in, day out.

What office do you work in. In my office , we are not allowed to "pop put for a coffee'

So you never leave your desk to make a cup of tea? Never spend any working time chatting to colleagues or using your phone?