WFH - What is reasonable?

But if OP doesn’t want the extra hours, then push back on that. I expect 9-5 or something similar is actually in the contract.

In my job 10 minutes to make a cup of tea would be fine, not any more on a regular basis. Plumber would be ok if I told my boss in advance and made up the time. School runs definitely not on a regular basis as we're not meant to look after primary age or younger children while working ( I have a very nice boss who turns a blind eye if my 8 year old is sick). We're also not allowed to work from a cafe for confidentiality reasons, but that may not be an issue in your job.
I only have to travel once every few months though ( assuming you mean travel not go to your normal office, as commuting is rarely counted towards work time).

When I worked in a shop I was able to flex my time to deal with things like plumbers, vet visits etc. I never once had to take any kind of unpaid (or paid) leave for it.

I just did shorter hours one day and flexed to do longer another to make up for it.

I'm surprised there are so many jobs where you can't do that.

The thing is, her employer also wants her to be available outside of her contracted hours as well.

Either OP is a 9-5 employee who has set hours, set breaks and can't flex her time to deal with the plumber or pop the the shop, or they allow her to flex her hours in the day to make up for the extra time she worked in the evenings to benefit them.

Too many employers want flexibility when it suits them but aren't willing to give back.

For me, YABU. You’re still new to this job and you’ve had at least 4 incidents where you’re not working when expected. Why couldn’t you just wait til lunch to go to the shop?

It basically comes down to if you could do it in the office without having to run it by someone, then great. If you’d have needed to inform/get permission, then reasonably you can’t expect just to be able to do it from home.

Set yourself to busy, the status doesn’t change.
Or…in the example of the plumber coming, just put yourself in a Teams call with nobody. Obviously I’ve never done that myself and good for run………..

Not necessarily. When I was office-based, I could have taken 30 minutes to talk to a plumber or similar, as long as I didn't miss meetings and made up the time.

Not all workplaces are the same. Some treat you as competent adults who can balance different priorities and still get things done.

The odd 5 mins is ok but 15/20 mins here and there to go to shops or deal with plumber, chat to neighbour etc is a bit much. Anyone office based would have to take leave to deal with a plumber etc. Your boss might be a bit more understanding if perhaps you let him know in advance that you will be offline for 20 mins or so to deal with these things and will make up the time.

Does any have any insight on how I go about asking about WFH culture in an interview? Or how I explain why I am leaving my role after 6 months?

I'd just tell them the truth, that whilst you broadly loved the role the culture of the organisation wasn't a good fit.

And re WFH in next job I'd just ask what their working culture is around WFH as an open Q. I'd follow it up with saying you're really happy to be flexible and give extra time over to your role, travel etc but you enjoy a working environment where you are afforded some flexibility also eg if something urgent crops up with your kids. And see how they respond.

I wfh and have been in the same job since 2019. We used to have a fantastic boss. He was happy for us to nip and do quick jobs as the whole team worked hard and didn’t take the p*ss. We all used to work overtime for him and would literally do anything for him if he asked us too. He then got a new position and another boss came in. He micro manages us to an extent that half the team have now left, the other half will not work any overtime. Non of us will give him the flexibility that we used to give the previous boss. He will randomly give us calls around 8:45 (mainly the employees that have children) and again at 3pm and it is always some dumb question that I know he knows the answers too.

I always used to walk my dog at 10am after our team meeting. It was a quick round the block walk would last 15-20 mins but then work through my dinner which was 30 minutes. So really they were getting 10 minutes each day out of me for free. I also take my 5 year old to school. School is at the end of my street and to take him there and back takes 7 minutes. I have to now log off and on again to show this in my timesheet BUT we are told to take a 10 minutes break away from screen every 60 minutes. But we are not allowed to use this time to take child/ren to school.
new boss has set so many micromanaging rules up it’s unreal but it has definitely effected the team we are in and everyone is leaving left/right & centre

Think you had it good at your previous jobs. Open a Microsoft word page, and place something heavy on your space bar, that should stop the phone calls.

Sorry what? Why does it matter if she works out if a cafe occasionally. And why would that make her job suddenly not "real"?!!

Run as fast as you can - red flag 🚩 bad management.
Institute of leadership and management-give staff the time, space, opportunity and tools to do the job they shall be happier and more committed to your company equals better performance less costs on re- recruiting because your HR policy is a recruitment and retention one!
Some Managers seriously need to get a diploma or degree already in ILM. Embarrassing the rest of us! All staff are suffering you too, micromanaging is stiffling your colleagues and both their and your perfomance. Also how many management hours lost to check in call- not a cost effective use of management time whereby they could be driving sales or promoting the PR or marketing of the company.
Im starting to think we need unions back in business to educate leaders and managers on these extensive studies about workplace that has been around since the 1980’s and prior like when they were talking about climate change. It’s seems we are still walking around in the dark with poor management or harrassing/ controlling approaches to management.
Get a new job if they do it to everyone they clearly don’t see the problem with their scrooge boss attitudes and crazy behaviour. Next they shall be giving you a tag on yor leg with a box under your desk so you don’t move and a cctv camera to record your work whilst tapping your personal mobile and using Bluetooth to check your location. Bordering Orwellian soon if they carry on this way of monitoring everyone and everything to death! Madness and misery!
I’ve not had a member of staff leave yet in five years of management do you know why I listen and respond, I coach and promote and that's what managers and leaders do. They won’t the best for the workers and business alike. I set the targets I show them how I do it, I let them do it their way - autonomy. The deliver they met targets they are happy. As a manager you are responsible for the work and wellbeing of you employees. For you to be successful you have to balance work with wellbeing for retention.

We have flexible working. Start between 7:30 and 10am, finish 4pm - 7pm. Must work 10am - 4pm. Can take up to 2 hours lunch break as long as pre-agreed with manager otherwise up to 1 hour. Min 6 hours a day, max 10 hours. Must hit contracted hours.

In itself that is pretty flexible, but managers also have discretion to allow eg popping out for the school run, letting workmen in to fix your boiler etc.

We're not a 9-5 industry. Our roles involve travel and you can be working 12 hour days overseas, no TOIL or paid overtime. So we do allow a bit of slack as long as the job gets done. Yes, there's been the occasional person taking the mick but that gets noticed pretty quickly. And people tend to stay for years because the culture is one of respect for each other.

"Wouldn't it be nice to say our bosses in the NHS, schools, police etc oh just going to sit in a cafe and work lol 😆 I do believe office workers don't have a clue about other jobs, sitting at a desk all day, then wfh with all its privileges, to complain so much about someone checking on them? In reality we are all present so can be seen but still get checked on and micro management being observed and graded while doing our jobs. Someone standing over you with a tick box form while dealing with difficult clients/patients/students during the reality of unpredictable behaviour.

Strewth..."

@Beautifulweeds I love it when someone on threads such as these invariably mentions the trifecta of "honourable" jobs: teachers, police and the NHS, and we are all supposed to stop and hang our heads in shame for not being as supposedly busy or stressed as people in those roles. I don't recall anyone being forced to be a teacher, nurse or police officer. Different jobs have different cultures and different expectations. And we are all aware of them when we make decisions about which careers to go into.

The OP is clearly not in a career where presenteeism and micromanagement are expected, hence her creating this thread. And posters banging on about how they can't do x y z in their roles is irrelevant, in the same way that it would be irrelevant for me to give a poster tips on how to cook steak if they have asked about the best way to cook chicken.

Hmm you mean the "old school bosses" who used to take boozy hours long lunches, constant work jollies, leave early for pub nights, spend hours by the water cooler etc? All for comparatively more money than we earn now with better pensions? Yeah they were really run ragged...

I remember in one job being told that it was best not to ask certain managers any questions after lunch as they spent every lunchtime in the pub.

And we need to move away from this idea that just because someone is physically sat in an office they are actually working-I know plenty of people who do fuck all in their office jobs but they are there every day taking up space.

Oh, and the idea that I would be lurking around Teams to see when my team to offline is baffling. They might be in a meeting, travelling, on a landline, researching, designing something, having a poo, at the dentist or putting away shopping... why should I care if I didn't have a meeting booked? If they do their job fab, if not I'm all over the improvements they need to make. 15 minutes to buy chocolate won't affect performance to any meaningful level.

I can ensure you I don't take the piss..yes I have the flexibility to pop out to a docs appointment or allow a trades person to come in my house. but on the other end I have just logged off work there now. I was online since 7am.this morning. I am taking next week off but no one really covers my job when am off so am making sure my work is covered and have a list of what is needed to be done next week when off by other departments. that's the trade off. I am trusted to do my work when required and this has been proven with bonuses and pay rises the past few years.

That's fair when people do a paint by numbers role requiring costant pushing of button / typing thing / talking about stuff; the type of thing hundreds of others do and that can be replaced. Some jobs are different.

For example, I'm paid to think. I can do some of that in an office, and sometimes love group sessions or big workshops. Sometimes though, I can work through something more effectively lying on the sofa, or scribbling on bits of paper, or randomly searching the Internet / white papers for ideas... but I'm still working and often achieving more than I would being distracted by a raft of people in the office with their "just a quick question" that breaks my train of thought. I love my team, but they have to have occasional days of just fixing their own shit so I can work too. Replies to all emails before breakfast might be done from in bed or on the tube, but people get their answer sooner than 9-5. A call on my mobile from outside my kid's swimming lesson gives the same information as being sat at my desk, but that's the only time that suits the caller. If someone wanted to check I was on Teams during working hours, I'd be super confused and very fucked off. I can't see them getting a polite answer to be honest; trust me or I'll work elsewhere would be the basics.

With that level of micro-managing, I would look for a job change or a transfer.
We used to have a manager who would arrange purposely pointless meetings for people's wfh days and check up and check in and spy to the point of being a hindrance to any actual work, as well as a nosy nuisance.
We have a new one now and we are left alone on wfh days as long as the work is done and we are available if required. Like adults who can be trusted.

It does sound micro managed but inclined to think within reason. ‘Fancying some chocolate’ and leaving work to get some isn’t a reasonable excuse to be away from work, unless this was your allocated meal break.

In my experience Teams goes amber when the app doesn't have focus, e.g. when you're working on something else in another app ... Word or Excel

Ah OK, it didnt come across as that, rather just popping out during work and not breaks. I think all the stupid SM joke vids showing wfh as a doss are to blame for this misconception. They may well have been posted for others to laugh and understand if in same situation but for the rest they come across as entitled and lazy.

I know it's a different world now and I'm one of the who has to commute, graft, do extra meetings, then come home to do extra work. Meanwhile my DH can wfh and spend his day doing other things and go out and about, takes calls sitting in the car outside of his bike repair shop etc. X

I'm not in a WFH job admittedly but I the more I read and hear I can't help that thinking that many (not all) who WFH take the piss about expectations of what they can get away with doing during "working hours"... not all these positions can be "that" flexi surely!

I always remember what my first ever 'old school' type boss used to say.. which was you are 'there to do a job of work'... I can't see that wfh should make that much difference to that..

I'm afraid that degree of control freakery and micromanagement would have me looking for another job.