WFH - What is reasonable?

Or...you could sit at your desk and work taking breaks within your house.

You don't need to buy any device to do it.

Just download some "mouse jiggler" software that runs in the background and will move the mouse pointer every X seconds, if there is inactivity.

Have you discussed with your work? Before I accepted a new job I made sure they were fine with working flexibly. I would only have accepted it on that basis.

But it does require a grown up discussion

Also if I am away from my desk for longer than making a cup of tea or similar I put it in my calendar. If I am researching /focussing I put that in my calendar too.

A coffee sure. Not 20 minutes! That's absurd.

You pop out for a bar of chocolate that isn't on your lunch hour?

Of course - why not?

Wouldn't you?

I've worked lots of jobs where you've signed for parcels and chatted to the driver, where you're able to pop out to shops on a quiet afternoon or where you're allowed to take 10-15 minutes to sort a doctors appointment etc.

Reading threads like this makes me extra grateful for all my previous employers 😂

You pop out for a bar of chocolate that isn't on your lunch hour?

I do those things when I am in the office.

It really doesn't sound like you have any idea how most people operate. If I was in the office I might pop out for a coffee or go to the shop to get a snack, I don't do those things because I am WFH, I do them wherever I am. I am in control of my diary and I get my work done. I don't know anyone who thinks this stuff is unreasonable - it's very normal behaviour. I wouldn't have done it when I was 25 but I now have a senior job and I have the luxury to deciding how I am going to manage my time.

I'm wondering how your boss has time to monitor you! I trust my team and am happy with what you're suggesting but in any event my own workload is too busy for me to be checking up on their teams status all day.

Tbh you wouldn't do those things if you were in the office, so why do it wfh.

I guess you could argue that catching up with colleagues during office hours, would take more time then these odd jobs.

I'm on the fence 😂 maybe do a Homer Simpson and get a key presser

I think this is unreasonable expectations from them, for someone in a senior role. You could potentially argue that a member of support staff needs to be consistently available because someone might need them for an impromptu task. Like you, I like to pop out to a coffee shop with my laptop, the change of scenery keeps me sane. I've never been questioned about it and I wouldn't expect to be.

The word is working from home. Would you think it ok to pop to the shop or do the school run if you worked out of an office?

Why shouldn't you be able to do those things as long as your work is getting done, though?

I work for myself now and happily take half an hour to pop to the shops, or to go home and feed the cats, or sort the washing, or sign for a parcel. I still get my job done so why does it matter?

I was away from my desk for 20 mins as was dealing with a plumber who had come to fix our shower - phone call from boss acceptable if you then make the time up at lunch/stay on late

Away from my desk for 15 mins having a chat with my neighbour who had brought over a package - phone call from boss ridiculous. A five minute thanks for the parcel sorry I've got to get back to work now.

Went off line for 25 mins as was working in a cafe and forgot my charger so had to go home - phone call from boss with impromptu 1:1

Fair enough - you need to make sure if you do that again you have all you need

Popped to the corner shop today for 15 mins as I wanted some chocolate - phonecall from boss.
Utterly ridiculous you aren't paid to go to the shops.

I don't think this job is for you you're taking the absolute piss.

This 🤣

That sounds intolerable! I could not abide that level of micromanagement.

If you are senior, I'd address this head on. If not, I'd look for a new role.

It's very poor management.

Honestly, yes, in my role (and previous roles), it has always been fine to nip out for things during the day even when we're in the office. I've always been on flexitime though.

A previous place I worked frequently did a 2.30 chocolate run to the local newsagents that we all took turns to do. Many of my colleagues get into the office for 9.30 or leave at 3 to do school pick up. Yesterday I had to have a blood test, so nipped out of the office for 30mins early afternoon and just mentioned it to the colleagues near my desk that if anyone was looking for me that's where I was.

The problem is OP has a manager who doesn't know how to manage people. It's very common, particularly for managers who have lots of pre-pandemic experience. Many haven't realised they need to upskill in order to manage WFH employees and so get frustrated and turn into micromanagers.

Honestly, yes, in my role (and previous roles), it has always been fine to nip out for things during the day even when we're in the office. I've always been on flexitime though.

A previous place I worked frequently did a 2.30 chocolate run to the local newsagents that we all took turns to do. Many of my colleagues get into the office for 9.30 or leave at 3 to do school pick up. Yesterday I had to have a blood test, so nipped out of the office for 30mins early afternoon and just mentioned it to the colleagues near my desk that if anyone was looking for me that's where I was.

The problem is OP has a manager who doesn't know how to manage people. It's very common, particularly for managers who have lots of pre-pandemic experience. Many haven't realised they need to upskill in order to manage WFH employees and so get frustrated and turn into micromanagers.

Given the nature of the OP's job, the unsocial hours and travel I'd say that doing these things is part of the give and take a reasonable employer would not bat an eyelid at. The checking up says the employer is all take. I would wonder if they were like that with everyone or whether there are any concerns about my performance or the company is in difficulties of some sort which means they are micromanaging and looking for excuses to potentially get rid of people and save salary spend. Imo those in senior management who are most suspicious about employees in these circumstances are those who are arrogant enough to think they are special cases because they work really long hours (usually remunerated highly accordingly) and who do non-work things in working hours.

I would find it suffocating too, and have never experienced that level of scrutiny in my previous or current companies.

If I notice that my direct reports are regularly offline on Teams, it does annoy me though and I take it into account when doing reviews/assessments, but in the same way i would of they spent their day chatting at the coffee machine in the office!
For pick up / drop off, or medical appointments, it's expected we block off the time in our agendas, usually people do this as private appointments.

The best move forward is an honest chat with your line manager. But if it's company policy it will be difficult and you might be better off moving on.

And working doesn’t always mean sitting at a computer, even when at home

This thread has very much highlighted that there are a lot of people who think being tied to sitting on a chair, staring at a screen for 8 solid hours is work and don’t appreciate that a wide range of jobs exist where some are more flexible in their approach, but are still work

As mentioned above if I want to pop out for a few hours to do something personal I can because the next day I may be sitting at that computer for 15 hours. It’s about doing the job, not how it’s done.

Working this way hasn’t done me too bad considering last year I got a top performance rating and a very healthy bonus so must be doing something right. And will continue to do so without being monitored by

Not everyone has a job where they clock in and out though.

WFH in professional services, senior management. I would do at home, what I would do in the office
So if I want a cup of tea, I make one
If I need to nip out to the corner shop for milk / chocolate I will

I wouldn't hang a wash up as that's longer than 5 minutes.

Being checked up on would piss me off and would be end of the road for me. I'm a grown up whose skills are in demand. I do not appreciate being micromanaged.

Edited to say I wouldn't work from a cafe. One of the reasons I can focus better here is the absolute quiet. Noise and banging in a cafe would make me less productive. A shared workspace in a professional building hired by the hour is more appropriate if you want to get out the house.

I always clock out to go to the shop or the school run etc. WFH is a big bonus for me so I don't like to take advantage.

I’m with you OP.

I have very a fair manager. She expects a high level of commitment and work and doesn’t suffer fools. However in return for producing a high volume and quality of work, she doesn’t give a shit where I am or what else I need to do during the day. As long as I show up professionally to meetings and in person things she does not give a hoot if I am cleaning my bathroom, hanging my washing out, going for a walk and frankly she has far too much of her own work to do!

I work in strategy and a lot of my job involves thinking about stuff. So if I am doing house jobs for half an hour during the day it doesn’t necessarily mean I’m not working - I am often mulling something over at the same time, and return to my desk ready to action it.

In return for our hard work my boss will often tell us to bugger off early on a Friday or not to log on again when we get home after an in person thing that ends at a weird time in the afternoon. And because of that I am willing to occasionally work over hours when required.

It’s not hard!