WFH - What is reasonable?

I also have a senior role and would expect the flexibility you describe. If someone started to micromanage me like that I would also leave. You could tell them so they rethink their approach to you alternatively good luck with the job search.

Noooo! You should look away for 20 seconds every 20 mins or so but that's it

Have you missed the part where she said she is being flexible by staying away, doing early mornings etc?
If she gives that level of flexibility she is not unreasonable to expect employer to be a little bit flexible too. It cannot work just one way

I though under H&S rules you had to move away from a screen every 20 mins or so!!

Oh my word that's a long time to have to be in an unsatisfactory job. I work hybrid with WFH regularly and it's up to me to put my hours in but there's no particular pressure to be available online all the time. Sometimes I work more, other days a little bit less so it Evans out. Good luck and I hope you find something sooner. Fingers crossed.

My DH works a similar schedule, lots of time away, over weekends, travel and no guaranteed TOIL.

However when he is home and WFH he would always tell his boss if he had to pop out unannounced for a school run etc. It is common courtesy and builds trust. I personally think it is untrustworthy to pop out mid shift when not on a break without informing a manager / colleague if manager is unavailable

I think it's unreasonable. Your company are getting a good deal but aren't reciprocating. So you are working quite unsociable hours in some instances but also being micromanaged and have no opportunity to take your time back. I would begin to look for something else. You have given this job a go and it's not for you. Are you very well paid? Just wondering if that's a trade off for the aggravation if you don't want to leave.

That’s awful @Nutellla i think given your update that I would play them at their own game.
i would log every hour spent travelling and outside of working hours and submit TOIL requests for it every other week or so. They are not reasonable in their company culture and behaviour.

She says some of it is given back as TOIL but not all of it. No mention of any extra pay either, which is standard in many senior roles.

But my question was more general as you said it would be taking the piss to WFH and pop out to do personal errands - why would it be as long as the work is getting done properly and on time?

Why do you think it's taking the piss to work flexibly?

Yes, people seem to think that working is the standard 9-5 and it's about sitting at your desk for that length of time, regardless of output. Of course, some jobs are like that - you have to be in a call centre (or at your home-working desk) during opening hours, or be in a shop when it's open.

But many jobs are about output and actually it doesn't much matter when you do the actual work - you might have the odd meeting, but as long as you attend those and get your work done to the requisite standard, that's what matters.

Way before covid I had a colleague who worked 6-2 so she was free to do the school run etc.. Flexible working patterns aren't remotely new.

Can't imagine doing that , but as I've said, I've never had an office type job working from home, maybe if I did then I'd take the piss too?

If you meet all your deadlines, attend all your meetings and work all your hours and more over a week, how is it taking the piss?

The company that you work for sounds like it has an incredibly toxic culture which puts micromanagement above productivity. What exactly is your job so I can make a fair comparison? I am in a senior role but not management, just a worker, however I have never seen this level of micromanagement and wouldn't have stayed anywhere that was this bad. That being said, I'm an engineer and work in tech which is known for it's flexibility so it may not be a fair comparison.

Sorry but they don't get to expect that amount flexibility and workload from you while demanding to know where you are all day, every day!

I'd be discussing it as a concern AND looking for another job. I work away every few weeks and I've inly been asked where I was once due to background noise and when I said just doing a little food shop and I was told to call them back after so they weren't in the way!

That person is probably on this thread going by some of the comments 😂

I have been in the office the last couple of days and yesterday a friend who happens to work in the office across the road from mine text me to ask if I was in or wfh. I said yes I was at the office and she asked if I wanted to meet for a coffee. I checked my calendar, had nothing booked in for the next hour so I said I will meet you in 5 minutes

Not only did I not have to check it was ok with my boss, I didn’t hide it either. In fact when I did speak to him later I told him that I had met her for a coffee and she said to say hello as he knows her from a previous role

No drama or telling off and everything still happened yesterday that should have.

The coffee shop next door would go out of business if office workers were not allowed to pop out during the day. Not sure it would make much sense for them to only be open before 9 and during lunch

Is working from home the same as flexible working?

if you are contracted to work between a certain time eg (9-5) then you should be working those hours.

if you are contracted to work flexi hours then nipping out to do bits is fine as long as you work your hours.

does your boss work from home too? It’s easy to call him a micromanager based on examples but really it’s just as hard to manage someone like you who is mixing up working from home with flexible working.

A few years ago (before covid) I worked in a job where home-working was not encouraged (and eventually I left because there was no need for me to incur commuting costs when clients didn't give a fig where I was).

But some of my colleagues used to organise events, and they'd be at venues from 7am, 8am etc to set up.

My boss decided to send an email around telling people off for being 10 minutes late to the office (eg if a train was delayed) and saying they should make up the time at lunchtime or after hours. I was actually on leave when he sent the email, so it wasn't aimed at me, but I was really angry for my colleagues who put in loads of extra hours.

I really don't know what's wrong with some bosses.

But if OP doesn’t want the extra hours, then push back on that. I expect 9-5 or something similar is actually in the contract.

Except if you read the OP, her contract requires flexibility and large amount of overnight stays and early starts that she's not financially compensated for.

If they want her to give up her free time for their benefit, then they need to be prepared to allow her to flex her time in return. They don't get to have it all one way.

Why not? We all do this at the office so why not at home. If I bump into a colleague in the kitchen, I'll chat for 15 mins. If I fancy a coffee or a snack I pop to the shop. Since when are we not allowed to move from our desks, take breaks and talk to people?
This is extreme micro-management and I would look for another job. This won't change.