solo day out - unwanted company

Learn to say no..Clearly and unequivocally. Keep practicing. It's a useful skill as a woman.

Exactly.

As an example, say you want to go to the cinema alone tomorrow. It's important to you that you are solo.

Fellow holiday goer asks "what are you doing tomorrow?"

Correct response: "oh I'm going out from the retreat tomorrow, I want to spend some time alone I think." [Don't be more forthcoming. Politely and smilingly change the subject.]

Incorrect response: "I'm going out from the retreat, I'm going to watch Despicable Me at the Everyman, the 11.45am showing. I'm going there by the 9.26am train and I'm getting to the station by taxi [which has a capacity for 4 guests]"

Sharing your plans in detail does come across as an unspoken invitation

I totally understand that many people won't implicitly understand that others might not be ok with something they would be ok with (I'm not neurotypical myself and sometimes it baffles me that something is "expected") but most people on this thread (over 90% at the moment) do see this as rude and I think in an ideal world everyone would be aware of things that are generally considered rude. That said we should all be as compassionate as we can when someone just hasn't picked up on some aspect of social etiquette - few of us go through life getting everything right. I guess the guy's reaction tomorrow will be telling - whether he just hasn't understood why this has created such strong negative feelings for the OP or if he's purposely trying to push her boundaries for his own gain.

I think a good thing to do would be just not say anything at all if this happens

Yes do this but don't mention tomorrow. Just say it is too hot today.

Good luck

I get why you're disappointed op but I think deep down you're mostly annoyed with yourself.

Your main mis-step was telling your next door room-mate about your plans at all. Sharing plans in detail like that is often seen as an unspoken invitation that you'd be happy for company. Next time be vague and don't share information with people.

Your other big mis-step was not saying no immediately when the man suggested it. But you've realised this.

I'm sure you'll sort this out fine in the morning. But going forward I'd work on this because if you enjoy/prefer solo travelling, this will come up as an issue repeatedly. Your main tactic should be not sharing your plans with people in the first place

Yanbu OP, I'd feel the same.

Reminds me of this recent thread:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5119796-do-you-invite-yourself-places?page=5&reply=136849997

I get that this feels more assuming than you or OP would like. I'd probably be far more careful as well, partly because I'm a woman who's received all the lifelong messages about how I'm supposed to always be terrified of being perceived as the slightest bit abrasive or an imposition others, and partly because I'm just aware that many women will feel guilty or uncomfortable saying "actually, no" so I actively try to avoid that.

My point is that (as hard as it may be to put ourselves in that mindset) many people are totally comfortable responding to "I'll come along if you don't mind" with "No thanks, I do mind." They don't think of that as being cast as the bad guy or pushed into a corner because they're totally ok matching that level of forthrightness, and they don't necessarily anticipate others not being the same.

I've flicked through your responses- except from saying he also fancies going into town, at what point in that conversation did he say you were responsible for his itinerary? So you share a car, the train, and tell him that you'll meet again at x time for the train, and see you later. I don't think he's forcing you to entertain him.

It wasn't a request though - this person informed OP he was coming along with her, tagging an "if you don't mind" on by the sounds of things, which didn't sound like it was actually meant as a question.

He invited himself on your solo day out, placing you in the position of publicly being the "bad guy" if you said in response, in front of the others, "Yes, actually, I do mind." He put you on the spot, in public.

Sometimes this is people being jerks. But more often it's because that person prefers a more direct communication style and would themselves feel totally fine responding to a similar request with "actually I was looking forward to a day by myself," so they're just treating others as they would like to be treated. They're not thinking about OP feeling awkward or like the "bad guy" because there's absolutely no reason for her to feel that way in their mind.

Other posters have talked about how they want people to dangle hints and hope the person picks them up and invites them, and for them that's being polite. That sort of dancing around things expecting people to read between the lines is absolutely exhausting to me, not polite or considerate. Neither approach is inherently right or wrong, we're just all different and have to find a way to rub along together without always assuming our own discomfort means someone else has wronged us.

Thursday - clement - sounds lovely!

I am surprised at the posts saying he did nothing wrong. He invited himself on your solo day out, placing you in the position of publicly being the "bad guy" if you said in response, in front of the others, "Yes, actually, I do mind." He put you on the spot, in public. He didn't phrase it in a considerate way - so clearly he is not considering your preferences and desires and comfortability at all. I hope you can elude him and whatever is game is, and enjoy your pleasant solo day.

Say you need a day of contemplation alone. If he pushes, tell him what you said here, that you want to look at the art at your own pace in solitude.

I am furious for you.
I think, while in theory you know perfectly well that you will be able to get out of traipsing about with him - and you will - I think you are angry because you sense that he might not care that much about the art itself necessarily and is looking for an excursion to tag along with, because he is more comfortable with company, and he has made his comfort your problem.

I hate this with the fire of a thousand burning suns. Don't sit with him on the train. Address this before you get on the train - if it's hot and you decide to postpone, he might too! in which case - or in any case - say in the car, or before you get in the car, "I am going to be spending the whole day alone, so please excuse me when I go and sit by myself on the train" or however you want to phrase it.

I have a horrible feeling he might not go on his own, which, obviously, is revolting, but all the same it would be nice to give him a heads up so he knows what he is (not) getting.

I think the best thing is to open the conversation strongly “ so, John, what are your plans for your day? It’s so good to be able to go off on your own and have the whole day to yourself isn’t it. If we meet up on the train coming back you can tell me about your town name experience.” Emphasis on your.

If he asks what your plans are be a bit evasive “ I have things in mind, but actually I am going to go with how I feel. That’s the wonderful thing when you don’t have to fit in with other peoples plans.”

This!
I like to explore alone and a stranger lagging along would be galling.

“When you're in the car on the way to the station I would ask him how long he needs to do what he planned to in town so that you can coordinate being back at the same time to be picked up by the driver. If he says he thought you were spending the day together just look quite surprised and say you think there has been a misunderstanding, you were planning and looking forward to a day alone.”

I came on to suggest pretty much the same tactic as this.” ^^

He just caught you off guard and you responded in the moment in public.

Its great that you are attending to your real feelings and are focused on sorting it out.

I would drop him a text ahead to say you plans are to spend the day alone but happy to sharethe taxi - this gives him the opportunity to not go if he had assumed he could spend all day with you.

For what its worth I think he has pushed boundaries and there is likley another agenda at play - but all we have to do is be assertive politely asap.

That’s unnecessarily harsh and snide. Women get cornered into things all the time and are socialized to be nice and accommodating and non-confrontational to get out emotionally or physically unscathed. She’s allowed to feel angry.

Even the effort to have to assert boundaries is an effort you shouldn’t need to make - especially on a retreat FGS.

So yes, tell him and don’t feel you have to lie about it. I fancied a quiet day alone.

Normal people would say “oh I hear you’re heading to X tomorrow, I was thinking of doing that, I’d love to hear about it when you get back”, leaving the door open for you to say “oh why don’t you tag along?” or equally “great, I’ll tell you about it tomorrow at dinner”
This is normal social etiquette where you show you’re interested but don't foist yourself.
Foisters can do one.

People like what? They're far from town, op has arranged a car into town. Asking if he can share the car doesn't make him the mysogonistic bastard some people are implying. She smiled and said yes. For all of knows he could be thinking "gosh, I hope she doesn't expect me to hang around all day! I just didn't want to get the driver to do the same journey twice.

Op I'd go with the "so it makes sense to get back to the car at the same time, I was thinking X"

It may be a lot of angst over nothing

It just reminds me of being at a pub and a group of men acting like there was something wrong with me and asking if I was depressed because I wasn't interested in talking to them. It just seems pushy. I'm the type to holiday alone and I would hate the presumption and imposition

But there's a difference between a group of men pestering a lone woman, asking what's wrong with them, and refusing to take a polite no versus one person asking another politely once if they mind company. Those guys in your memory were being pushy jerks.

I tend to need and enjoy alone time, so I look at a person sitting alone with a book or whatever and think "oh that looks nice" while looking at bunch of people in a loud, shouty group downing drinks and shudder a bit, thinking about how overwhelmed I would feel. But that's me projecting my own preferences onto others, thinking how I would feel in that situation. Extroverts tend to do the same with their own preference, seeing people in a group having fun making noise and thinking "that looks fun, I'd love to join in" and seeing the person in the corner quietly people watching and think "oh they look lonely I should be friendly." Because if that extrovert were in a corner people watching, they would likely feel lonely. For every person who wants to go wander through museums by themselves all day (hello, that's me) there's one who wishes they had someone else to go wander with and talk about the art. We can't expect others, especially strangers, to anticipate our personal preferences. But we can (and should) expect them to respect our preferences once we actually communicate them.

He's not a prick and he isn't imposing on you. He asked if you didn't mind and that was your opportunity to say, well I'm happy to share the car to the train station to save you money but I've got my own itinerary and plans to do stuff on my own.

Saying he cornered you makes you sound feeble that you can't state your own mind.

You need to speak to him again and say, oh about the trip into town I didn't make it clear that I have my own plans once we are there but I don't mind sharing the car to the train station. I want the day to myself.

🙄🙄🙄