solo day out - unwanted company

Ah. Your instinct was spot on.

Another man trying to run roughshod over a woman because that’s what HE wants. Good for you.

I bet he comes back early as he didn’t actually have much interest in the frescoes at all.

What a prick he sounds

well done OP 👏

Excellent, well done. He was being quite pushy

I have solo travelled a lot.

I have often found that men will often invite themselves along to what a woman is doing, as they want female company.

Any female will do for them.

They never seem to think about what the woman wants

Fab update. I expect he is still very confused why his version of the day isn’t happening 🤣

I don't think the "real" issue is women not feeling like they can express their desires for fear of being impolite.

Had he bothered to ask her what her desire was, given her that basic respect of checking that she wanted him to come with her, she would have told him.

But he didn't. He told her he was coming. And was then pushy more than once when she told him no. She had to actually not go to get rid of him.

The only issue here is a pushy, presumptuous near-stranger not understanding that a woman being on the same retreat as him doesn't automatically mean he is entitled to her time, energy or company.

Hopefully he's learned a lesson but I doubt it - too self absorbed. I have recently been on a retreat and met someone like this too - for some people it's social and that's fine, but not everyone feels that way and it's not hard to read the room and act accordingly.

This happened to me when solo travelling.

I was in Bali, travelling alone, and I was going to see something the next day.

I was staying in a youth hostel. There was an absolutely horrible man staying in the hostel.

I told one of the girls where I was going tomorrow. She asked me about it in front of him later.

He said "great ill come along i want to see that"!

I didn't like him at all. But I couldn't say no.
I think at the time I was very shy and I just couldn't stand up to men. I think I was also internally afraid of his reaction .

I ended up spending a whole miserable day going around a monkey sanctuary with him the next day.

Now, even though I would still find it hard to say no to someone, as I'm quite meek and quiet, I would say no.

I would rather suffer through saying no, then suffer through spending a day with a man I don't like!

Well done OP!

He’s tried to impose his ‘company’ on at least one other woman at this retreat, he knows exactly what he’s doing. The very type of holiday this is fully suggest that it’s a place to find individual peace activities. The op never openly said ‘I am going on a day trip, would anyone else like to join in’ - the man tried to invite himself, he was imposing from the first moment and he would have been fully aware of it.

There are many singles cruises, coach trips, group holidays available. But he has joined a reflective retreat and has already tried to connect with two women who are using said retreat for its purpose. The op didn’t sign up to have to tell people to leave her alone, it seems to be the basic premise of the trip.

A single man wants to go out with you in Italy. Is he attracted to you. Is he thinking he has a chance?

Please update us if you meet again at communal dinner - I expect he will be piqued and snarky.....because he has been exposed for the slease he is.....

Perhaps the real issue is women not feeling like they can express their desires for fear of being impolite, in the first place.

OP's update makes it very clear men like him can't take no for answer anyway, need it repeating firmly numerous times and are still baffled by it, so I don't think the real issue here lies with women.

What a prick. I'm annoyed for you, OP. This is exactly the kind of shit I used to put up with when I was younger.

He probably thinks he's doing the poor single woman a favour by bestowing his presence on her! And no doubt MANSPLAINING art to you.

Can't possibly think that a woman is perfectly fine on her own, for a day, a month or a lifetime!

Fuck him off!

Well done OP. Cannot believe the entitlement of some men assuming a day would be improved by their company.

I don't think you over reacted at all, I think you read his vibe and intent accurately!

It’s an issue when it becomes an issue, not before. And any man or woman won’t know that you want to be left alone if you don’t tell them. From OP’s last post it is clear that guy was trying to impose his company on her, from his failure to listen and respect her wishes, but she waited until the morning of the outing to let him know that (as far as he is concerned) her plans had changed and she wanted to go alone. So I have some sympathy for his POV.

Perhaps the real issue is women not feeling like they can express their desires for fear of being impolite, in the first place.

Well he was a dick wasn't he! You were completely correct in your initial gut feeling about him. Congrats on standing up for yourself to him, and don't be too harsh on yourself before, he caught you by surprise on purpose, knowing full well in public that you may acquiesce on his plans for your day.

Hope you enjoy the retreat and the day tomorrow.

cross posts!

OP has updated

I read a quote a while ago - I thought it was Virginia Woolf but can't find it online - but it's something like:

'There is nothing a woman can be doing that can not be interrupted.'

Yes, all that... 😡

Posted without reading the updates, sorry.
Uggh he sounds horrible. I hate it when men pester like that and don’t take the hint. Well done for being firm Op.

This.

Well done, best solution! Nice side-step there. It shows that your suspicions weren't wrong, he absolutely DID have designs on your day and time and attention! Cheeky, entitled bastard...

I can totally understand that knee-jerk response to be nice, we are socialised to it, that's how the buggers do it. I can understand your inner fury too and hope you can let it go now - or even use it as a lesson of the retreat! Something to think about going forward.

Getting older, I think of my boundaries as like a strong, imposing castle: if you build a sturdy wall, you don't have to waste time and energy constantly patrolling it against attacks.

I hope your retreat brings you peace, contemplation and growth. But he was a dick... 😏

(And that other woman rather threw you under the bus, didn't she? Whether to get rid of him from herself, or out of her own need to 'be nice'...).

Anyway, this morning I thought, OK, he may think we're just sharing a car; if he doesn't I can quickly disabuse him. I said good morning, he said, 'So have you decided what we are going to see?' Me: Oh, no, this is a solo day out for me. I don't enjoy looking at art with other people. I may only go to a couple of places anyway, it's so hot.' Him: 'Well let's chose a couple that we'll each see and we can talk about them over lunch.' Me: No, as I say, I want to spend today alone. Him, shrug. We get in the car, drive to the station. The driver says What time am I picking you up? Me: Well, it may be separately. (We both have his number). Him: well maybe we could swap numbers so we can coordinate a time to get the train back. Me: Oh that sounds like a faff, I won't enjoy being on the clock. Why don't you go today and I'll go tomorrow. This heat looks too much for me already.

There we are. You had him pegged from the start. All the posters chiding you for over-reacting, lecturing about different ask/guess styles, suggesting he meant no harm, just wanted to share the car, and was socially awkward (I'm supposed no-one asked if it might be dementia)... Trust your gut. It's good you got angry, as that is what tells us our boundaries are being crossed in some way, and that's what gave you clarity. It's not always elegant, speaking up in these instances, and we don't always nip things in the bud soon enough, but you sound like you've ultimately handled it well.

He may think you’d be lonely and it’d be nice to have company. Just say what you want. It’s not an issue!

The issue is (and there have been threads about this on MN before), is that some men do not believe in women truly wanting to be left alone. They will impose themselves in their space even if a woman has been as clear as possible in ‘no, I’m happy sitting/dining/taking a trip alone’. If the op had gone today, I’d bet my last penny he would have found a way to tag along or ‘bump into her’ along the way.

I would do this, but I'd do it over breakfast before you even get into the car. Tell him that you were really looking forward to a day alone, and that once you both get to the train station you are going to find your own seat on the train and chill out and do your own thing in town. Tell him that you'll see him at the end of the day to share the lift back to your accommodation. That way if he is expecting you to accompany him he knows before he gets into the car that is not going to happen and can rethink his plans if necessary.