To ask if anyone is clued up on the challenge this week to VAT on school fees?

I've checked the private schools I'm aware of in North Wales. One of them has a pool. One. And it's a 25m pool.

An all-weather pitch is nothing special either, there was one at the state school I went to.

Why isn’t that true of teachers then?

You can't learn well just by reading a textbook, nor can you learn well online. There's no substitute for a human teacher.

You think that a "good" Ofsted rating is a guarantee that your child will have a good experience at that school? Ofsted inspections are a tickbox exercise that don't actually assess the quality of the education.

I'd be interested to hear about the private schools you think are "shite". If the parents thought that they were then they wouldn't pay for tuition there, would they?

Sorry to hear that, of course some pp won't consider this but it's madness especially given SEN costing £10.7bn and councils are struggling. Those on the threshold who push a bit further to pay will struggle most, and add to the above.

It was announced well before that, seems that some were clutching at straws… hoping that Labour would back track in what is actually a really popular election promise

Thank you. Yes that's exactly it ..though I have no antipathy to Eton. I just wish the general knowledge of private schools wasn't based on it. There are so many ironic own goals with this policy it would be funny if it wasn't my kids and my financial equilibrium at stake.

I wholeheartedly sympathise. They are totally hitting the wrong people. The state system fails your DC and most parents with DC in that situation will move heaven and earth to try to get something workable for them. Then you are hit again with this while Eton et al are laughing their way to the bank. It’s awful.

If you are talking standard county grammar probably push the borderline ones over but an average (or lower sets as you said) DC will never get into a super selective grammar with all the tutoring money can buy.

@MattBerningerstrophywife because labour correctly assumed that setting the vast majority of 93% of parents against the 7% would be a vote winner. The only report that said it would bring in a net gain was written by a mate of a labour politician and everyone else has said it will not raise the amount forecast, will in some areas create pressure on state places and worst of all, disrupt vulnerable kids who have been moved once already out of a sector that couldn't meet their needs. Many parents like me are over-stretched and in debt to give their kids an education. Not a luxury one, just one their kids MH can cope with. But not one Labour politician has been prepared to engage with that. With the state of CAMHS and the EHCP process soul destroying and often impenetrable, the private sector is an escape route. A child has a limited number of years for their education...waiting 3+ years for assessment, EHCPs and legal wrangling isn't a reasonable alternative.

While I don’t necessarily agree that private schooling is fair etc etc I don’t understand why parents need to pay VAT on it. Aren’t they already saving the taxpayer £££s by taking their kid out of state school?

I'm not denying they exist. I'm objecting to them being constantly trotted out as though they are typical. They are not and the parents that can afford them are not typical of the sector either. That's my massive issue with the many mn discussions there have been on this. Far too many people are weighing in with the only vaguest notions of what many typical private schools are and especially outside of the SE, what sort of income the parents are operating on.

tutoring won’t budge a very bright DC’s marks by much at all.

Probably not, but it is very likely to budge an average child’s marks enough to secure them a place where they may have otherwise not passed.

Where did anyone say this was the norm? I certainly didn’t but it is not deluded to say there are schools like that. They exist and they are actually benefitting from this VAT initiative.

Not direct. Do your children go to super selective grammars? No. Children from rich families are more likely to secure a place for a whole raft of reasons but tutoring won’t budge a very bright DC’s marks by much at all.

Yes I have. I know lots who have passed grammar tests easily, having been in bottom sets at primary school, but having received a lot of tuition.

This article backs this up.

www.nuffieldfoundation.org/news/children-from-rich-families-much-more-likely-to-secure-grammar-school-places-as-they-reap-rewards-from-private-tutoring

@BotanicalGreen yet again with the atypical examples. Millfield is famous as a swimming super academy. How about you go and look at a load of non south east day schools with fees around the 15-20k mark. Most average private schools are far more akin to middling state schools than they are Eton or Millfield in terms of their grounds and facilities. What's different is the staff to pupil ratio and their freedom to structure the curriculum in the way that best suits their pupils..many of whom are not academically strong and have sen needs unmet in state.

Maybe you should take a look at Millfield School’s website. I don’t know about now but DH’s friend took a couple of polo ponies with him when he went there.

That’s what is peddled. It might make a difference in a borderline case but not substantially for most. Direct experience of grammars?

It was announced today that VAT will be introduced from January 2025.

I can’t quite figure this out, are you arguing with yourself?

‘State schools don’t have state of the art theatres like the ones I’m taking about. They don’t have Olympic standard swimming pools. We are talking different level here.’

mmm, not to most private schools!
we have 6 very expensive - cheapest £24 day, most expensive double that - private schools in our city and none has an Olympic size pool - 25m and 20m only, 2 don’t have a pool at all… our state school DOES use a 50m pool for lessons and the swim teams, but it’s not in a school - they hire it. They also use the state school down the roads 25m pool
Every secondary has a great theatre in the city, performing arts is a big thing these days… as is music… as is music tech
also -
isn’t the argument that most private schools are very modest, not too exclusive, ‘ordinary’ parents use them blah blah blah? Can’t have it both ways …

Completely agree and the accompanying rhetoric has been utterly disgusting, including from the education minister.

I'd love you to be right. I'm not sure what will happen. It's the most ridiculous harmful policy that sums them up. It'd be great if they got distracted and dropped it.

It’s not naive. It’s an urban myth. I have had DC recently in super selective grammars. What’s your direct experience?