To ask if anyone is clued up on the challenge this week to VAT on school fees?

And why are you calling people names? Weren't you a 'champagne socialist' yourself before Labour announced the VAT policy? How is 'Watch the champagne socialists up in arms then!' anything but gleeful? Schadenfreude.

Not gleeful at all, I believe in choice unlike some on here.

Why do you have to call people names? It doesn't elevate your cause, quite the opposite. It doesn't affect us as we are finished with school but you sound positively gleeful.

They already do. Then watch all the champagne socialists up in arms!

Labour will have the remaining Grammar schools in their sights anyway.

For some pupils (SEN for example) they may well be less suitable than the private schools they use. They may suit the academically-minded ones. No chance of finding out in this part of the world.

Well some posters seem to view them as inferior options. The poster in question said they hated the fact that they have had to move their DC to a grammar and hope the VAT policy is dropped so that they can be moved back to private. I was intrigued as to what was so hate inspiring about the grammar alternative.

Exactly so if they are still busy raising their kids why all the fake concern about Sen kids being effected by the vat, as I’ve said unthread I don’t agree with vat being charged on education full stop but I don’t like the fake concern and using people as part of an argument as they are useful at a particular point in time, by all means put together an argument but do it on your own merits- not you specifically but the legal challenge as a whole.

They were probably busy raising their kids, I really doubt they were off arguing in favour of some spite tax to make other parents lives harder.

Can you stop assuming that people who disagree with you are ‘hard of thinking’. I’m well educated (Doctorate level) and used private education for a few years as it was the best thing for DC at that time. Now use state provision.

And.

I work with families from all parts of the community from the privileged to the under privileged. I see the inequality and the struggle. I see first hand how impossible it can be for people to get out of the trap of poverty.

I fully support the tax. I’m not ignorant or stupid. I just don’t agree that it’s going to have a significantly negative impact on anyone other than a tiny tiny proportion of people.

I fully support any policy that seeks to lessen the vast and obscene inequality in this country.

Is it ‘the answer’ to this? No, of course not. Is it a perfect policy? No, of course not. Is it fair? Yes, mostly it is, IMO, because those being asked to pay more can, on the whole, easily afford to. Will they fight it? Yes, of course. Anyone with privilege being asked to give some of it up will fight it, it’s human nature.

Will vast swathes of private education facilities close? NO! They will find savings if need be. They will adapt. And those with wealth tend to be fans of free markets and unfettered capitalism. Well, here you go. If the schools can’t tolerate a little bit of instability then they are not viable businesses. That is capitalism for you.

Will there be some children with special educational needs that experience some uncertainty and disruption? Yes. Will there be a period of adaptation where things are less certain and changes need to be made at a societal, school and individual level? Yes. But that’s life. Things change, we adapt. And in this case we are talking about the very well resourced few, whom I’m sure will cope.

This legal challenge will hopefully highlight gaps in educational provision for children with SEND but other than that it smacks of spoilt toddler and I feel embarrassed.

I spoke to a friend who still uses private Ed and it was so hard to allow her space to moan about it. She chooses to work part time but could easily up her hours. DC are out all day at school and clubs. She could easily get a promotion. They are probably the least well off in the group of parents I keep in touch with. The rest could cover the extra just by taking one less holiday a year (most have several) or selling a couple of assets of which they have many.

I feel embarrassed seeing the turmoil they are all in when there are people dealing with actual, real life issues. Children in Gaza for example. Children in this country living in abject poverty. Parents working two jobs just to make ends meet. I feel like telling them to ‘get a grip’ but I’m far too polite.

But here I can say it with safety of anonymity ‘Get a bloody grip!’

You are the type of person who I have massive sympathy for and I don’t actually agree with vat on education anyway, however the travesty is your case is not the vat on fees it’s the fact you had no other choice but to pay for private school in the first place in order that your children’s needs could be met. I have an autistic child so I know how bad the Sen system is in schools, I went down the route of getting ehcp and sending him to specialist but it very nearly broke me and he had very clear and obvious needs so it was less of a fight than it would have been if your child masks for example.

it just riles me a lot, I have never seen so many threads on mums net on one topic, vat on school fees, how unfair this is for Sen, court cases being brought, alot of people making a lot of noise etc etc. where were they all for the last 14 years when sen education has been going down the pan and people like you have been having to make massive sacrifices as you children’s needs can’t be met in state school. The people making all the noise weren’t bothered then as it didn’t effect them and now you and people in your position are being used because you fit someone’s else’s agenda.

@Morph22010 thank you. I appreciate that. That's what upsets me so much about this debate. The vitriol and spite directed at "Sebastian and Arabella" and glee that children will be disrupted. There is no conceivable way I can tell my kids they have to back to the schools that failed them so badly, allowed them to be bullied, threatened, terrorised and failed to recognise their SEN. I'll shoulder more debt and count the days / terms until I can get on an even keel again. An EHCP wasn't going to be an option - they fall into that bracket of "not bad enough" and my DS's ASD and ADHD diagnosis was ten years too late and again, had to be obtained privately because he would have been out of education by the time CAMHS could have actioned things. As I've said, I don't want luxury or privilege, or better grades or connections, just a classroom environment my kids can tolerate and learn in.

@Orchidzombiewatch well my two kids are in the tiny minority. I'm a SP who works full time and they are in private as their MH and SEN were failed by state. But I'll just get a grip because it's only a few.

If this policy was actually going to materially improve the state system id accept your argument but it won't. It's been earmarked for 6000 extra teachers which don't exist. I'm one. I know the sector. But thanks for telling me my kids' don't matter as they're the tiny minority.

There are numerous ways this could have been done better..gradual introduction at points of entry for instance, would would have avoided settled kids having to leave.

Exactly. For some reason anti-VAT posters seem to think that anything from the ISC is accurate, unbiased and worth listening to…
but it has one reason for existence- to protect the private school system at all costs.

@Orchidzombiewatch well my two kids are in the tiny minority. I'm a SP who works full time and they are in private as their MH and SEN were failed by state. But I'll just get a grip because it's only a few.

If this policy was actually going to materially improve the state system id accept your argument but it won't. It's been earmarked for 6000 extra teachers which don't exist. I'm one. I know the sector. But thanks for telling me my kids' don't matter as they're the tiny minority.

There are numerous ways this could have been done better..gradual introduction at points of entry for instance, would would have avoided settled kids having to leave.

In the same way as unions are lobby groups for state teachers

Private schools. They fund it. Its an association of 7 other private school associations that acts as a lobbying group on behalf of private schools.

Can you stop assuming that people who disagree with you are ‘hard of thinking’. I’m well educated (Doctorate level) and used private education for a few years as it was the best thing for DC at that time. Now use state provision.

And.

I work with families from all parts of the community from the privileged to the under privileged. I see the inequality and the struggle. I see first hand how impossible it can be for people to get out of the trap of poverty.

I fully support the tax. I’m not ignorant or stupid. I just don’t agree that it’s going to have a significantly negative impact on anyone other than a tiny tiny proportion of people.

I fully support any policy that seeks to lessen the vast and obscene inequality in this country.

Is it ‘the answer’ to this? No, of course not. Is it a perfect policy? No, of course not. Is it fair? Yes, mostly it is, IMO, because those being asked to pay more can, on the whole, easily afford to. Will they fight it? Yes, of course. Anyone with privilege being asked to give some of it up will fight it, it’s human nature.

Will vast swathes of private education facilities close? NO! They will find savings if need be. They will adapt. And those with wealth tend to be fans of free markets and unfettered capitalism. Well, here you go. If the schools can’t tolerate a little bit of instability then they are not viable businesses. That is capitalism for you.

Will there be some children with special educational needs that experience some uncertainty and disruption? Yes. Will there be a period of adaptation where things are less certain and changes need to be made at a societal, school and individual level? Yes. But that’s life. Things change, we adapt. And in this case we are talking about the very well resourced few, whom I’m sure will cope.

This legal challenge will hopefully highlight gaps in educational provision for children with SEND but other than that it smacks of spoilt toddler and I feel embarrassed.

I spoke to a friend who still uses private Ed and it was so hard to allow her space to moan about it. She chooses to work part time but could easily up her hours. DC are out all day at school and clubs. She could easily get a promotion. They are probably the least well off in the group of parents I keep in touch with. The rest could cover the extra just by taking one less holiday a year (most have several) or selling a couple of assets of which they have many.

I feel embarrassed seeing the turmoil they are all in when there are people dealing with actual, real life issues. Children in Gaza for example. Children in this country living in abject poverty. Parents working two jobs just to make ends meet. I feel like telling them to ‘get a grip’ but I’m far too polite.

But here I can say it with safety of anonymity ‘Get a bloody grip!’

Can you stop assuming that people who disagree with you are ‘hard of thinking’. I’m well educated (Doctorate level) and used private education for a few years as it was the best thing for DC at that time. Now use state provision.

And.

I work with families from all parts of the community from the privileged to the under privileged. I see the inequality and the struggle. I see first hand how impossible it can be for people to get out of the trap of poverty.

I fully support the tax. I’m not ignorant or stupid. I just don’t agree that it’s going to have a significantly negative impact on anyone other than a tiny tiny proportion of people.

I fully support any policy that seeks to lessen the vast and obscene inequality in this country.

Is it ‘the answer’ to this? No, of course not. Is it a perfect policy? No, of course not. Is it fair? Yes, mostly it is, IMO, because those being asked to pay more can, on the whole, easily afford to. Will they fight it? Yes, of course. Anyone with privilege being asked to give some of it up will fight it, it’s human nature.

Will vast swathes of private education facilities close? NO! They will find savings if need be. They will adapt. And those with wealth tend to be fans of free markets and unfettered capitalism. Well, here you go. If the schools can’t tolerate a little bit of instability then they are not viable businesses. That is capitalism for you.

Will there be some children with special educational needs that experience some uncertainty and disruption? Yes. Will there be a period of adaptation where things are less certain and changes need to be made at a societal, school and individual level? Yes. But that’s life. Things change, we adapt. And in this case we are talking about the very well resourced few, whom I’m sure will cope.

This legal challenge will hopefully highlight gaps in educational provision for children with SEND but other than that it smacks of spoilt toddler and I feel embarrassed.

I spoke to a friend who still uses private Ed and it was so hard to allow her space to moan about it. She chooses to work part time but could easily up her hours. DC are out all day at school and clubs. She could easily get a promotion. They are probably the least well off in the group of parents I keep in touch with. The rest could cover the extra just by taking one less holiday a year (most have several) or selling a couple of assets of which they have many.

I feel embarrassed seeing the turmoil they are all in when there are people dealing with actual, real life issues. Children in Gaza for example. Children in this country living in abject poverty. Parents working two jobs just to make ends meet. I feel like telling them to ‘get a grip’ but I’m far too polite.

But here I can say it with safety of anonymity ‘Get a bloody grip!’

Who funds the ISC?