To ask if anyone is clued up on the challenge this week to VAT on school fees?

The courts may comment in some ways on making the VAT HR compatible, like by applying it to all forms of education. What then? Will they actually try and force through some dodgy amendment to the Human Rights Act? Is that possible?

In any event, this is a landmark case and will be very interesting, assuming the Labour Party are brave enough to fully defend themselves in court, rather than come up with some excuse to delay the VAT. I am not sure they can anymore, because it is meant to be implemented in January, so it is going to be lose and amend and refunds to schools?
How exactly is it going to work if they lose? Especially if they have already taken the taxation and some schools have already started setting of previous VAT claims?
If they lose, this is likely to end up a shambolic clusterfuck?

Yes yes you are a wonderful person, now what does this have to do with implementing an education tax and forcing kids out of schools? Or is it enough to justify any policy or action now by losely associating it with vague equality dogma? Don’t answer that last question, the answer is no.

Yet the kids at the bottom still get left behind. Attacking indy schools doesn't do anything to address that.

Of course University isn't suitable for many kids, whether they be privately or state educated. WP is not about just putting more people through university. It is about encouraging motivated and academic DC to apply and access high ranking universities because they are worthy of a place at the table despite their socio-economic background.

Also i don't believe we should just put more people through university. Widening participation shouldn't just mean university, it should include technical and vocational pathways too. University isn't suitable for many kids.

The policy technically does cover those attending university until they’re 19 paying VAT. Admittedly, that’s an error in rushing in the policy without any scrutiny.

I don't support taxing any form of education. My point about university is that if you are going to end the principle of not taxing education then it should be applied fairly. To be honest Phillipson set the age of VAT up to 19 so it could very possibly draw in some uni students anyway. Same as it draws in some nursery pupils.
Destroy a universal point of principle that education is zero rated and you can not them justify only applying it to some forms of education but not others. That's why there are legal challenges.

Nobody who cares about education would support an education tax, it’s ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

I suspect you don’t don’t care too much about widening participation or you wouldn’t be suggesting that VAT should be applied to university fees. That would make the barriers even higher for underprivileged DC.

The issue is exactly that - the assumptions made. The poster clearly cares about education or she wouldn’t be so psssionste about WP. It’s just a different perspective.

It is relevant though, you would assume that people who support education taxation wouldn’t value education.

Yes where exactly are the grown ups? Asking posters if they actually have any GCSEs because they have different views is hardly grown up behaviour.

Harming private schools does not increase “opportunities for higher education and training for the poorest kids in our country” though. It does the opposite. It means that children pushed out of their private schools will access the better state schools, including the academically selective ones. By doing this, they take up state school places which would otherwise have been available to the children you are hoping to help.

https://inews.co.uk/news/the-next-steps-before-private-school-vat-on-fees-can-start-3403185?srsltid=AfmBOoq1JIhCn1XMnxjakpg4hF830MSgiD2XWOXE4R8Hug29jEaAoUmx

Sounds like the letter before action will be served in the coming weeks and the Government has 14 days to respond or ask for an extension, if it is a complex matter… clearly Labour think it is a slam dunk and will have zero problem responding in detail within 14 days.

https://www.isc.co.uk/media-enquiries/news-press-releases-statements/isc-ceo-urges-government-to-reconsider-its-approach-to-taxing-send-families-and-schools/

“James Murray told the House of Commons on Monday that independent SEND schools where at least half of pupils have an education, health and care plan (EHCP) specifying that their special educational needs “can be met only in a private school” will remain exempt from business rates under the new legislation. But the Treasury minister went on to acknowledge that not all independent SEND schools would meet this definition, and would therefore face business rates. This has prompted warnings of closures, higher costs for parents and a deepening SEND crisis.
Speaking to iNews, Ms Robinson said: “The government has conceded that some independent special schools will be affected by the choice to create a two-tier charity system. We are deeply concerned about the knock-on effect on SEND provision in the state system and on the young people whose education will be disrupted as a result of this policy. The government is levelling down in one area of SEND before it has levelled up elsewhere, with children as collateral damage. We urge the government to reconsider its approach to taxing SEND families and schools.” “

“School breakfast clubs delayed until 2026
Labour puts back flagship policy as concerns grow that schools do not have the capacity to run the clubs”
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/school-breakfast-clubs-delayed-until-2026-shsqxwbkl

“There are growing concerns within the sector that many schools are not ready to introduce the scheme, even if the funding is there to pay for it.
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Research by the New Britain Project, a think tank, found that many in the sector felt that the changes were being rushed through without “the staffing and clarity needed” to make it a success.
One academy chain said that breakfast clubs must not be an initiative that the government “expects schools to sort out with just a few months’ notice”. Another said that they would put “further pressures on school finances and staffing”.”
(…)

The very sad thing in all of this is that us tiger mums on MN seem to know more about education on the whole than the so called experts or Ministers in charge! It is shocking!! Across the board. Lacking in common sense, planning, foresight, all of it!
Where are the grown ups in the room?

Unconnected? Wow yes I see that now, closing schools won’t actually improve education. Seems so obvious doesn’t it @Lookslikemeemaw ? Almost like the opposite is true.

Generally when people tie themselves in such mental gymnastic knots attempting to justify a policy such as this, it suggests that the policy is unjustifiable. The only conclusion is that the policy is motivated by spite.

wise. Up. The 2 things are completely unconnected. I was trying to explain to some of the numpties on here what widening participation means. That’s all.
Posh schools shutting because they don’t have enough parents willing to be gouged for 10’s of thousands of pounds each year and can’t adapt in any way to make their fees lower has zero to do with getting more lower income children into higher education.

If your ‘prep’ school closes then send your kids to one of the many, many undersubscribed state primary schools. If you can’t afford senior school fees - send your kids to a state secondary. Cut your cloth etc.

I get what you’re saying, closing schools will give disadvantaged children education opportunities. It’s just I’m not sure if you’re joking as it makes absolutely no sense.

But attacking indy schools doesn't impact these kids. Even if you got rid of every indy school you wouldn't improve outcomes for these kids. You are conflating 2 different things.

Widening participation is not about giving wealthy and privileged privately educated children MORE opportunities than they already have. FFS. Or even state educated ones.
It’s about encouraging and giving opportunities for higher education and training for the poorest kids in our country whose personal circumstances put them at a disadvantage when pursing higher education action.
You know, the young carers, the children who need to go to work to help the family instead, the children who don’t have the time or space at home to be able to study, who don’t have the encouragement at home, who parents perhaps don’t have the resources to give them many extra curriculars, or parents who’s level of education makes it difficult for them to help their children study, The children who are struggling to focus because their homes aren’t warm enough, they don’t have enough to eat, or - through absolutely no fault of their own- live in chaotic circumstances.
Those kids, the bright children who don’t see further education as an option.

Yes, I’m having that problem myself.

Of course it is. How is forcing closures of specialist SEN schools/ kids out of schools in GCSE + Alevel years going to widen participation.
Have you looked at their proposals for making it harder for schools to exclude pupils, whilst at the same time, forcing schools to keep SEN provision in house with hardly any extra funding?

‘What’s this now? Forcing schools to close is going to ‘widen participation’ in education. Excellent news.’

I can’t tell if this is parody or not.