To ask if anyone is clued up on the challenge this week to VAT on school fees?

In many cases they are less needy with some “SENs” having only been diagnosed by parents

A diagnosis is not required in order for a child to meet the legal decision of having SEN.

The sector does a far better job with Sen provision.

Such a sweeping blanket statement cannot be made. Some DC’s needs cannot be met in the state sector.

Facts are facts. I've presented previously and you have denied them.

Not at all. No twisting of anything. Just facts that seem distorted if vision happens to be tunnel.

No it wasn't simply a risk pointed out. The post I referenced stated "If you want to tax education then do it fairly ie private nurseries + universities". If one group were to be taxed, others should be too.

You’re right there, the election is the only opinion poll that counts. Time will tell, but not looking great for Labour so far.

“MPs aren’t legal advisors. Nothing wrong with WFA being means tested or farmers paying tax.”

MPs have basic literacy skills and can create the legal notes and links we posted. They were simply whipped as is always the case. This is a breach of human rights of children they are now complicit in, as a group.

That is incorrect - private school pupils have a human right of non interference by the state in their essential education. They are learning Maths, English, Science like everyone else.
State schools are not “free” by the way either, they are free at the point of delivery, that is it.
Either all education is VATable or none.

Exactly, tough luck and screw the kids affected. It isn't a ridiculous comparison at all, same as the whataboutery of what the Tories did.
Go to any indy school and look those kids in the eyes as you try to defend the policy to those who are being withdrawn and have no state school to go to or face having to start GCSE + A levels from scratch!

What a ridiculous comparison. He was in a state school that turned private . Privately educated kids are in private schools by parents who chose to put them there and pay fees. If they now can’t afford it( like the vast majority of the country) tough luck.

Bit like the Tories then the past 14 years 😂 Big difference is labour policies suit the majority and not the minority a la the Tories. Polls are meaningless at this stage as we have 5 years until the next election. Let’s see how the public feels when services ( and just about everything else given how much the Tories screwed up) are in a much better place. The only poll that matters is the one before an election.

The Labour Government is unpopular with the majority, only 20% of the electorate voted for them and Kier is polling at below -30.
‘Nothing wrong with WFA being means tested or farmers paying tax.’ is about the level of analysis the Government has conducted on their policies. They’re aimed at the people who are unable to understand the consequences and are easily led.

Ah right so this is revenge?
You may not care but we are seeing kids in GCSE + A level years being withdrawn and 0 state places available OR places which don't offer the same subjects.
In 1 term the number of withdrawals = the number predicted for the whole year. State schools aren't prepared and ultimately it is kids who suffer.
At the very least this should have been phased in over a 2 year period and current Yrs 10/ 11 + 12/ 13 exempted.
FfS Starmer was gifted free fees when his school turned from grammar to private because it was understood that existing pupils wouldn't have to pay yet he doesn't afford that concession to other kids now in the same position.

MPs aren’t legal advisors. Nothing wrong with WFA being means tested or farmers paying tax. Being unpopular with a minority doesn’t mean measures shouldn’t and don’t happen. Look at Tory policy which favoured the rich and was unpopular with the majority hence them no longer being in power.

They have had advice from lots of people that this won't work, including their own MPs + civil servants, but they choose to ignore it. Don't for 1 minute think that this government actually spend time consulting, you only have to look at WFA + Farming tax to know that. They don't consult or do impact reviews prior to announcing policy.

I’d imagine they have had a fair bit of legal advice themselves.🙄

Strange because the ISC challenge is being lead by Lord Pannick who advised the then Labour government that it would be inadvisable to do so. He is extremely knowledgeable about the issue. Labour previously accepted his advice yet now ignore it.

I think it very much depends on the school on both sides. Mainly independent schools tend to be academic and are results driven but there are some small nurturing schools less focused on academics which some Sen children can thrive in whilst mainstream can’t meet needs. Having had an Sen child in mainstream all I can say is that it was horrific so I can understand why parents choose to pay for a small nurturing school if it is in their means rather than spend years fighting. My son is in a small school for children with autism, it is state run so I don’t pay but my son had issues major issues in mainstream from year one and it took us until year 4 to get specialist including going to tribunal, that was quick compared to most.

The legal challenges which are grasping at straws.

Parents choosing to buy a luxury they can’t really afford or commit to long term( fees rise regardless and aren’t controlled) is on them, literally nobody else. The vast majority of Sen kids are in state schools which provide free education for all and is there for the taking for everybody,privately educated kids aren’t any more needy. In many cases they are less needy with some “SENs” having only been diagnosed by parents. SEN provision isn’t also better in private schools, you hear many privately educating families bemoan how poor it is. The sector does a far better job with Sen provision.

And yet again you spectacularly miss the point. Yet again you twist my words and gaslight.

Or maybe read about the legal challenges before commenting

A breach of human rights! That is just ridiculous and pretty offensive. Check your privilege!!! The vast majority of the population can not afford private education.

I don’t mean you didn’t care personally but most kids in independent schools aren’t there because of Sen and now kids like yours are being used by certain parents opposing the vat them to support an arguement. The injustice is that you had no other option than to pay in the first place and yes you may have posted in threads in the Sen section at the time but where have all the threads about the injustice of you have to pay in the first place been for the last ten years from the people who are now so oh so concerned about Sen children. the majority don’t give a shite about Sen children or your children they are just convenient to be used for their own means.

i don’t actually agree with vat on fees and have massive sympathy for people in your position as I know how difficult the Sen system is to navigate. I went a different route and went to tribunal and my son is now in a special school for kids or mainstream academic ability so the classes are about 6 kids each and about 80 kids in the whole school and it’s state funded.

@Lookslikemeemaw and @Morph22010 I am in exactly that position with mine. I'd love not to be bankrupting myself for the kids to have an education but that's where I am. I don't really get the point about "you didn't care about it then" ...of course people care and post about what affects them. I posted on the SEN boards a few years ago when my kids started to be unable to cope and state and got useful support there. Now I'm on these threads because my settled and happy kids and others like them could face huge disruption if, as a result of this schools close or they or their friends have to move to a setting that won't work for them. I think that's the bit that is often left off this. It's not just about them having to move schools, which loads of kids do all the time, it's moving to a school that won't or can't meet their needs. State secondary schools are mostly 1000+. Simply too big and busy. IF this policy was going to produce revenue that would fix the state SEN system then there'd be no argument. But literally no-one thinks it's going to go anywhere near that. Estimates vary but the amount raised will be the tiniest drop in the ocean, will be likely offset by movement and overall will do more harm than good, so there can ONLY be a conclusion that this is ideological spite.

Exactly Sen was never mentioned by many until it was for their own agenda. I’m not including the genuine people who have been left with no choice but to pay for independent for their Sen children but they are the minority of independent parents. What would happen in an ideal world where the Sen system was sorted out such that children could have their needs met in a school so that parents do not have to resort to paying, would the human rights arguement for Sen/indepemdent still apply?