School banning banter

Problem being is you have no idea what’s happening inside for the person it’s being said to. See my post, to start with my DD laughed along because she wanted to be friends with the girl. She’s not over weight but equally more a size 10 then a size 6 like her friends, so that ‘banter’ calling her fat, or commenting on what she’s got for lunch today, she might be laughing along but what do you think she was thinking about at bedtime that night, way after the banter girls had forgotten all about it.

If posters have teenage boys and their group of mates were chatting and in their conversation you heard misogynistic comments, not aimed at a particular person but still misogynistic. Would you call them out on it, would you want your son to call them out on it? Or would you just excuse it as banter and not harming a specific person.

If you wouldn’t want it calling out, why not? I assume you would if they were being racist.

It's 100% to tackle hate speech, and your son's interpretation of it being anything anyone could be offended by is wrong, either because the message has been badly delivered or because he's annoyed by it and is deliberately being obtuse - you need to unpick that with him and talk through the difference between homophobic, misogynist, racist, transphobic etc. language and taking the piss out of friends. There is absolutely no way a school is talking about police referrals unless the policy is aimed at hate speech.

I suspect the school are having trouble with bullying and when the teachers try to address it pupils and parents just throw back 'It was only banter for fuck's sake!'

School can't win.

4 and the police are called

This suggests that when they say 'banter' they mean 'hate speech'. The kind of thing that is massively racist, homophobic, misogynist, threatening etc which some people try to dismiss as 'banter'.

Clearly the school is not going to call the police because some lad has called their mate a daft cunt or nicknamed him Stinkbomb because he farts all the time.

By 'banter' they mean calling their friend a fggot or a Pki all the time and then claiming it's just a joke.

Its absolutely the norm for the more popular kids who don't realise their 'banter' when applied outside their friendship group is actually bullying.

Some lads will laugh it off in the moment as don't want to be seen as being over sensitive, but it actually upset them.

Its funny how its never the uncool kids in trouble for banter, eh

If both people are equal and truly enjoy it, it’s banter. If one of them doesn’t (even if they pretend they do), it’s bullying.

It’s true that it can be difficult to tell the difference, but I can see the school's point.. Bullies, when challenged, will often say things like "It’s just banter! It was a joke! You're over-reacting! Haven't you got a sense of humour?"

According to the OP, the police are only involved if detention, workshop, parents attending workshop has not worked.
And of course it is offensive comments that would be taken this seriously and that this path would be taken.
I would hope that the police would be involved if banter included threats of sexual assault, etc.

The fragility on this thread is unbelievable

Its not scaremongering, its pointing out the absurdity of the so-say 'policy'. It is clearly absurd to involve the authorities where two willing and happy friends engage in good natured genuine banter, and quite frankly, it isn't the schools business either.

Well actually look at the Scottish Shit Show where the police and courts got readily involved with someone who posted a picture of a suffragette coloured ribbon..

I don't know. I remember when my brother's were teenagers I think the only way they communicated with their mates was through banter. It wasn't bullying though.
If it's offensive comments that is different but if they catch some mates sharing a bit of banter they are threatening to call the police? The school is talking shit, the police won't care.

Is calling someone an idiot- gentle bit of poking fun or bullying

Depends on the context. Is the person a friend? Do they have learning difficulties or ND? What is the intent? Are they in on the joke? Could the speaker take the same comment if it came from the target?

Is calling someone fatty - gentle bit of poking fun or bullying

Depends on the context. Is the person a friend? Is the person genuinely overweight? Do they have sensitivities? Are they in on the joke? Could the speaker take the same comment if it came from the target?

Is calling someone gay - gentle bit of poking fun or bullying

Depends on the context. Is the person a friend? Is the person genuinely clearly having identity issues? What is the intent? Do they have sensitivities? Are they in on the joke? Could the speaker take the same comment if it came from the target? This one is a little less mature than the other two, I like this less, but context determines whether its banter or bullying.

I'm a broken record, but its context, context, context.

Yeah because that’s exactly how it’s going to go isn’t it 🙄🙄

Stop scare mongering 🤦‍♀️

I’m so sorry your DD went through that.

This is exactly the sort of thing that this school is trying to stop, which is good on them for trying to stop bullying or abuse.

Hopefully less kids will have to go through what your DD went through.

Another example is kids referring to men who are a bit different as 'paedo'. Many will excuse this as kids being kids (we all knew a slightly eccentric man in our community who was probably nothing more than slightly eccentric, but who drew whispers of 'paedo' from school children). Is that acceptable, or just 'banter'? I had this conversation with my son recently, who disclosed how "everyone" refers to Tim at number 16 as a "paedo". Tim is in fact a wheelchair user who sits by his window to watch people pass, presumably so that he doesn't feel isolated on account of his limited mobility. My son had actually made this point to his friends. What many boys pass off as humorous banter can be deeply hurtful, harmful and really affect lives in a way they rarely comprehend unless someone takes the time to sit down and explain to them.

Indeed.

School: Yes officer, that's right, Jonny called Micky Bambi on ice after he slipped during a game of football

Officer: Is this the first time Jonny has done this?

School: No, yesterday morning he welcomed a student to class who had missed the bus and thus late by 20 minutes by saying "good afternoon, Jess!"

Officer: Riiiiiiight. I'll be right over with the dogs and riot gear. Its not like we have a knife crime epidemic or anything!!!

IMO banter does often mean bullying and trying to get away with it.

That being said ‘anything anyone finds offensive’ is far too wide ranging - and makes me feel slightly nervous a school would do that.

Slippery slope and all that.

I asked him what they meant by bants and he said anything that anyone might find offensive.

Banning people making offensive comments is absolutely the right thing to do.

Too many people make offensive comments (usually racist, sexist or homophobic) and then use the excuse it’s just for ‘bantz’ - no it isn’t and just because you say that afterwards doesn’t make it any less offensive.

@CBAMumma

There is a huge difference between a gentle bit of 'poking fun' and tormenting/bullying someone.

Please can you give examples of what the difference is?

Is calling someone an idiot- gentle bit of poking fun or bullying

Is calling someone fatty - gentle bit of poking fun or bullying

Is calling someone gay - gentle bit of poking fun or bullying

Call the police for banter - what? 😬😬 Can you imagine the police being called on hundreds of kids. They rarely respond for actual crimes. Do the school honestly think this is a good use of police time and resources? Is this the same for their bullying policy. Unless I’m missing something this is utter madness.

Genuinely don't think this is the type of 'banter' the school are referring to. Perhaps op can clarify. It can only be reported to the police if it's hate speech. And hate speech has no place in schools, so the teachers are well within their right to deal with it harshly. After all, they're utilising 4 strikes and out - only the serial (and presumably most serious) offenders will necessitate a report to the police.

This is absolutely to draw the line between ‘banter’ and bullying.
Last year, a girl with all her friends would call my DD fat, a lesbian, gay etc (not all at the same time) and if she got upset it was, what’s up with you it’s just for bantz. This girl posed as her friend, it later moved on to more pronounced bullying.
I guess the key here is, it’s unlikely anyone is going to know what’s said between friends unless one of them reports it. First offence is a warning, that’s when everyone knows not everyone is happy with the situation.

Yes, I’m there - DS16 and an older adult son as well.

And yes, we’ve tackled this as mine and his mates are similar. I’ve issued lots of reminders about not making it relentless, although to be fair it doesn’t seem to be so, and not using it to get at other students.

It’s not banned as such in our school but if it was I’d support it as I would assume there had been a problem. I don’t have an issue with group rules like this. We had to do all class litter pickups when I was at school because some kids dropped their litter. It’s not a big deal. Schools are facing tough situations and it’s often more manageable to put a clear rule in place rather than to try to adjudicate intention and level.

Just tell your DS to knock it on the head in school time and on social media if he’s on that.

The only people I have ever heard justifying banter or bants are people who enjoy offending others