School banning banter

@crumblingschools do imagine a school can't do that and maintain a ban on bullying, without having to resort to ill-defined nonsense like banning banter?

@oldwhyno do you think the pupils were told we don’t accept banter, end of assembly, never to be discussed again. Do you not think the assembly might have been slightly longer than that, that there will be more discussion in tutor groups, PHSE lessons?

For those who excuse banter maybe you should read the OFSTED review paper on peer on peer abuse (now called child on child abuse). There are some horrifying statistics on how many young people (mainly girls) have to put up with sexual harassment, name calling taunts etc. When surveyed many boys classified this as banter.

Now I know this has been happening forever and this report was commissioned after the Everyone’s invited website was set up for victims of sexual behaviour in schools to post their experiences. Initially it concentrated on historic abuse but more and more people posted about current incidents and that promoted OFSTED to act and new safeguarding guidelines for schools which specifically refer to not using banter, boys will be boys as an excuse for any such behaviour. Obviously this report/guidelines deals with other aspects of abuse/behaviour as well.

Maybe, just maybe we can start making a difference, but it can’t just be schools sending this message, it’s got to come from the home too. We need to change the mindset

Children need to be taught the difference between banter and bullying.Banning it won't help that, and is daft. It's likely to be impossible to enforce to anyone's satisfaction.

🤦‍♂️who wants life to be like the workplace ffs

Most kids in secondary schools who defend it as "just banter" are in fact being racist, sexist or otherwise using hate speech.

I was a secondary school teacher until recently it and it really is quite common even in good schools for teenagers to break the bounds of reasonable behaviour.

At my old school we regularly had to involve the police, usually due to kids fighting and actually seriously injuring someone (broken leg, head injury etc) or bringing in a knife.

Sexual coercion and blackmail was also common - so the lad would say to his girlfriend do this or I'll send this naked picture of you round, she'd refuse to do it and he'd send a naked picture of her to the whole year WhatsApp group. Police get involved then as well as that's distributing child pornography technically as well as appalling
Behaviour.

I've heard the lad in that case describe seeing the photo round as "bantz" as well.
Revenge porn isn't bantz but some teens genuinely think it's funny and if it's funny it's bantz and thus it's ok.

Banter as the teens use it includes practical jokes (= stealing someone's valuable stuff and destroying it, etc etc).

Not to mention the girl who called someone else a "fucking P*ki" and passed that off as "bantz"

We had about ten or eleven racial abuse cases a year and nearly all the perpetrators passed them off as "bantz"

My thoughts exactly.

My DS is bullied. They get away with it sometimes by calling it banter. I'm not sure they actually understand the difference.

Banter/roasting/having a laugh Iv heard from my teen dc is rude or bullying - not whitty or anything remotely like it. No place in school or work

I totally agree. All banter is totally subjective. I was merely offering up a view that banter is enjoyable for many people. I enjoy being the recipient of banter, and I love giving it back. It makes us laugh and it makes the day go quicker.

I fully accept that myself and both the guys and girls I work with have zero boundaries when it comes to banter. No subject or insult is off limit. It’s not for everyone and we are not bad people. Perhaps a lesson for all is to ‘read your audience’.

It is an overly simplistic solution to a very complicated type of social interaction. It will be impossible to police because children/teens will simply switch the word banter to something else and say they were not bantering.

Teacher here! Yes, we’ve tried to do the same. As others have said, what is banter to one pupil is offensive to another. This is especially true regarding older siblings/cousins/their friends who extend it to the younger pupils…who then use it with their friends as it’s seen as the thing to do.

It’s also amazing how ‘bantz’ often lead to a friendly head lock here, a punch on the shoulder there…it quickly goes from banter, to a mucky fight, to a full on punch up 😬

Banter definitely can be bullying.
It's also not the only way to bond with someone.

@Newsenmum it doesn’t even have to be serious bullying, it can be a general mindset that using racist, misogynistic terms etc amongst your mates is fine, especially if it is not targeted at a specific person. This needs to be challenged.

Social media and the likes of Andrew Tate have a lot to answer for, but so have parents who just say well it has always been this way.

Clearly there has been some serious bullying labelled as banter. That’s what they’re tackling.

I absolutely would call him out on it, and have done (the trend of calling women 'Karen' for example - low level, but I always challenge sexism). And yes, I'd expect him to call his friends out, too - he's certainly not afraid to (and has done). It may not be harming a specific person, but the entrenched prejudices around women are incredibly harmful and it's only by calling out some of the assumptions around negative gendered language (women are 'bossy' and not assertive for example) that anything will ever change. And it'll take boys and men challenging it to change it, because let's face it nobody listens to women.

I completely agree with you. Any kind of thinly veiled prejudice in the form of 'banter' should be challenged.

Banter is bullying. It’s what you say when you’re being an absolute total dick. I’m assuming that’s what they’re referring to. It’ll only get reported if kids are upset by it so if your boys are making jokes in your home I’m sure they’re not going to get found out.

When

I really don't agree with the sledgehammer to crack a nut approach. What I am trying to say is that the school need a better approach to determining and educating on the difference between genuine banter and bullying, and that what might feel like banter to you, may feel like bullying to them. Where the line is, well that is very difficult to determine. But that doesn't mean you ban banter and police mutually agreeable private conversations.

@Longma that sort of defeats the object. School are trying instil in these young minds that some of the conversations they are having are not acceptable whether in school or outside of school. People excusing it as banter, boys will be boys etc just carries on the mindset for males that they can carry on being misogynistic etc.

I'm 46, so grew up in a generation where "banter" was acceptable. I can honestly say that I have witnessed more extreme cases now, than I did then. Whatsapp groups and online games can be incredibly toxic, and the amount of racist, disablist and misogynistic language absolutely staggering. My kids are banned from all Whatsapp groups and not allowed to voice chat online for that reason. For some (optimistically, I would like to think most!) banter is just gentle teasing that bonds people together a bit, but I can completely see the logic in banning it completely to limit the spread of this kind of abuse.

Something that isn’t unkind? I find it pretty easy to have a bit of fun and laugh without resorting to nasty ‘banter’.

Only by idiots

They’re not going to get the authorities involved when 2 friends are messing about having fun with each other.

They are wanting to put a stop to bullying which is disguised as ‘banter’.

The school does not have time to pull up everyone joking with their mate but they will not tolerate bullying behaviour or comments that someone finds offensive.
Which can only be a good thing.

So if someone is heard making a racist comment or someone complains about someone being racist to them, then they will be pulled up on it and they can’t just use the phrase ‘it’s just banter’.

I assume you don’t have teens or work in a school.
Unfortunately, a lot of bullying and offensive behaviour happens which goes unpunished purely because it’s ‘banter’ and the victim is made to feel like they can’t report it for this reason.