Identity Cards: yes or no?

Nope, you don't need to take a single driving lesson or test in order to have a UK provisional driving licence. That's an official, government issued ID. There are some people who can't afford this or manage an active application process, but that being so, ID cards will also be a problem for most of them.

The majority of Europe does charge, and presumably we aren't expecting that one card issued at 18 would do for the rest of an individual's life? There comes a point when it's not much use as a photo ID if so!

So really, if anyone thinks this is going to address issues of accessibility in a way that other forms of photo ID don't, they're being rather optimistic. Compulsory photo ID is the issue, varying the type doesn't address that.

Certainly Gerard Darminin was saying that our problem with immigration is down to the fact we don't have national ID cards. I presume he meant mandatory.

The whole 2006 fiasco started as a voluntary scheme. The idea (if you believe there was any serious thought about it) was that it would prove so useful, we'd all queue up for it.

As you may notice, there wasn't exactly universal approval.

https://www.theregister.com/2010/03/11/idcardforecast/

Completely missed it, yes, but then I have a driving licence and a passport.
I guess the original question from the OP wasn't suggesting voluntary schemes, because there is no real point.

Last time I renewed my driving license, the postmaster took the picture on a dedicated tablet for free.

It's not really going to work on a voluntary basis, because you wouldn't apply for one I don't think.

I take it you missed the 2006 scheme ?

How much do passport photos cost? Nevermind the application fee.

I guess if it is the law the you have to pay for it unless you are on benefits in which case the state would provide.
That's the way it worked where I lived in the EU, because it was the law.
It's not really going to work on a voluntary basis, because you wouldn't apply for one I don't think.

National ID cards in France are free for the first issue.
Citizen cards in the UK cost £18 at the moment so i am unsure quite how prohibitive a standard national ID card would be.

A UK passport is 88.50-100
A UK drivers licence - factor in lessons and test before the card is even on the horizon.

Some domestic flights accept drivers licences, but others dont.

Anything that requires an active application process and a fee will exclude some people.

That won't fly for a card that has to be carried 24/7. "Can't be arsed" isn't (yet) a defence in English law. And if they are provided free of charge* there's no excuse.

*"Lost" cards would be an interesting case. But ultimately the taxpayer pays.

Anything that requires an active application process and a fee will exclude some people. Most countries in Europe that have ID cards charge, and some of them are more expensive than our provisional driving licences. So there would still be accessibility problems

You also can use a driving licence on a lot of domestic flights now. But anything that's important and official enough to be used when you'd otherwise use a passport will be a similar level of faff to a passport.

I have no problem with it and would have one without issue.

All very well for "formal ID" to be a passport or driving licence, but that excludes quite a few people i'd imagine.
Also would be handy for domestic flights not having to cart a passport about.

I am not sure ID cards will be as effective as the French think. Much as I agree that the unofficial economy is an attraction to those using small boats to cross.

You need to tackle the areas of the economy where such jobs lie.

I have no issue with an ID card. We lived in the EU for 5 years and had an ID card which was a bit of a rigmarole to get. You had to visit the commune you were living in, they took all details regarding rights to be there etc. As others have said then the police came round to check that we were living where we said we were and the ID was granted.
You had to carry it wherever you went, but nobody ever asked to see mine.
It was useful as well for registering product guarantees then you were buying white goods and expensive tech, and you could move across Europe only carrying the ID.
It cost if I remember rightly about 15 or 18 Euros, and would have been valid for 10 years.
I don't think you can say that there is any more likelihood of a North African man being stopped and asked to prove his identity there than the stop and search practices that we see here. That is down to institutional racism rather than anything to do with an ID card. If somebody is committing a crime, then again I have no problem with them being asked to show their ID. Where I was , if they didn't have the ID they would be in trouble for that as well as the crime, if they were found guilty of that, but I don't recall the penalties for not carrying it.

If life is going to become inviable without personal use of a smartphone, then someone in Government is going to have to provide them free of charge, ensure they are free to use, and figure out some way of enabling people who literally can not operate a device because of disability.

I like the naïve assumption of "have to" there. Successive governments have clearly demonstrated who is at the bottom of their priorities, and it's an almost 100% match with that demographic.

Compulsory ID carrying is utterly unnecessary, and I'll gladly rot in a prison cell before I'll ever accede to it.

Nothing to hide, nothing to fear ...

So the people who have no desire for a smartphone will continue to lead an atypical life.

Just because something is commonplace shouldn't mean that it becomes a necessity. Some people don't own a TV despite the fact they've been perfectly common in UK homes since the middle of the 20th Century. Some people do not have any sort of mobile phone, "smart" or otherwise because they have neither the need nor the want for one.

If life is going to become inviable without personal use of a smartphone, then someone in Government is going to have to provide them free of charge, ensure they are free to use, and figure out some way of enabling people who literally can not operate a device because of disability.

Not sure how any of this relates to what @littledrummergirl said. She's quite right in what she says about people working illegally, incidentally!

If the UK did have compulsory ID cards, they'd also be valuable just as passports and licences are. They'd be vulnerable to getting lost or nicked just the same.

You did not "have" to do anything.

You freely chose to attend an event, which presumably made it clear beforehand which forms of ID they would accept. It's then up to you to choose whether or not you find those terms agreeable and attend. You chose to do so.

Compulsory ID carrying is utterly unnecessary, and I'll gladly rot in a prison cell before I'll ever accede to it.

I haven't read the thread yet, but it is a fact that modern life requires photo ID in a way we just didn't even 10 years ago.

Not everyone can afford or need a passport or a driving licence, so I do think there should be a national photo ID card option as an alternative, which should be at minimal cost. But I would never agree with compulsory ID cards or that it should be compulsory to always carry ID.

Isn't that about optional additional forms of ID then rather than a compulsory system to allow you to have the choice.

(I have taken my passport to music events before. I have been to events in other countries which require this. It doesn't bother me because I have somewhere suitable to store my passport).

Only if you carry one 24/7 and accept the criminal penalty for not doing so.

yadah yadah yadah

I recently had to use ID to enter a music event. The only ID they would accept was passport or photographic driving licence. Would you REALLY like to take your passport, which is a very valuable item, to a music event?

Absolutely no to ID cards from me. I hold a passport so that I can travel, this is my choice.
I hold a driving licence because I choose to drive and it's a requirement when being in charge of a dangerous piece of equipment.

I have the right to anonymity, I don't want to prove who I am to anyone that asks- as long as I am not hurting anyone and following the laws of the country I'm living in, then it's nobody's concern who I am.

ID cards have no bearing on people illegally taking work, that is to do with those that are happy to hire them without proof of work, or checking that it's genuine. I spend half my working life checking rtw and following up on those we don't believe are genuine and preventing the people that hold these from working. There aren't as many of these as you would think, because decent employers do the checks and are looking for fakes and the signs of modern slavery. Those that are not checking now, would also not worry about ID cards, these are unscrupulous employers who need to be found and jailed.

Go after the low lives that use and abuse rather than the victims.

Is there a problem with having two names? A married name and a professional name for example?
The NI number links both names anyway so it's not an issue. Feels like a blunt instrument way to solve a non existent problem.