Identity Cards: yes or no?

I’m fairly agnostic about this (and intuitively not a fan) but it is interesting to note that the UK had the lawful means under EU law to limit the amount of time that EU migrants who came from the accession states spent in the uk and their access to state benefits, at the start of the Blair years but the uk government was unable to do this because the lack of an ID card for uk citizens made it impossible to differentiate on entry into the uk between uk citizens and EU passport holders. An ID card might have put a brake on the uncontrolled migration from Eastern Europe which was one of the key triggers for Brexit.

I’m fairly agnostic about this (and intuitively not a fan) but it is interesting to note that the UK had the lawful means under EU law to limit the amount of time that EU migrants who came from the accession states spent in the uk and their access to state benefits, at the start of the Blair years but the uk government was unable to do this because the lack of an ID card for uk citizens made it impossible to differentiate on entry into the uk between uk citizens and EU passport holders. An ID card might have put a brake on the uncontrolled migration from Eastern Europe which was one of the key triggers for Brexit.

I live abroad and they are mandatory. I have no issue with it at all. When you move, the police phyically check you live where you say you do and then all systems are updated. It shows your right to medical treatment if you go to hospital, GP can upload prescriptions on it, you can upload your travel pass / train tickets to it. With a card reader I can access all my govt information / do my tax returns / set up a rental guarantee etc. It's proof when I vote/ get a job. I can travel within Schengen (as I am a dual - national). It surely helps to prevent trafficking / illegal workers / NHS fraud etc. It costs 25 euros I think. I am so used to the convenience of it, I can't imagine why some people think it's some kind of fascist control tool unless you have something to hide.

Whilst I actually wouldn't mind this. Of course in addition to the passport, driving licence and dozen other forms of ID this is not an argument for it.

Why would anyone who has nothing to hide from the authorities prefer not to hold an official proof of identity

It's just a gift to fascists and others if an authoritarian inclination .

Couple of points

There is at least one database with everyone on them, the DWP/National Insurance one. I also imagine that every adult is on teh HMRC one as well.

If we were to use the Passport Office as a starting off point then about 75% oif the UK population hold a passport so I cant see that adding the remaining 25% is a huge issue.

Finally worth pointing out that because they have land borders which are porous most European states needed an ID card system to sort out who was who.

The UK relied on 'Port Control' to restrict who came in. I am not sure to what extent it was ever a perfect system and I suggest that it certainly isnt now

Totally different, as your med records can be huge and cover many different GPs Hospitals etc.

Why would it be inaccurate? there are 10s of millions of driving licences, ever had an inaccurate one?

Easiest way would be to initially, use the passport database for ID cards, then roll that out on a voluntary basis to anyone who wants one, the tech to have biometrics is reliable now, once accepted & bugs ironed out, make them compulsory.

The problem now is that anyone can be whoever they want to be when asked who they are, so people here with no right to remain, can disappear.

The ID card in France is free, in Germany its 37 euros, so if they can do this, i don't really see why we would need to charge £80 plus.

Yeah, it would not be an easy switch. Not because it isn't technically possible, but because too many different and unlinked departments would have to collaborate. Also the people would object. Despite the fact that we essentially have ID cards now in varying forms, I don't think there is sufficient appetite from the public yet.

Would it?

It hasn't happened elsewhere.

I think the British were burned somewhat by the experience of WWII, but WWII was a weird, different time where the government was doing all sorts of intrusive things like rationing and forced relocation of people, because there was literally martial law.

I think it would be a bit too much to expect an all-in-one seamless system from the get-go. Rolling information into one card would take time as it’s a cumbersome process, and having an ID card that serves the function of all these other cards would mean you’d have to have a 100% compulsory system from the get-go, because having a system where some drivers need to carry a driver’s license and some don’t (because it’s been rolled into their ID card) would get complicated and hard to police.

I think the most likely way this would develop is that you’d start off with a voluntary card (but you’d still have to have your driver’s license and all your other bits and pieces) to be held by those who wanted it. Over time, more and more systems would then get rolled into the ID card, rendering some old cars obsolete.

In Japan, we have the My Number card。everyone has a My Number assigned, but you don’t HAVE to carry the My Number card… yet. But from this October, our National Health Insurance cards will be disbanded and we will need to use our My Numbers in order to register at hospitals and get healthcare. So everyone will have to use a My Number card, OR walk around with an A4 sized piece of paper with their My Number code written on it (which you can ask for at a government office if you really hate carrying the card).

I think the point is that landlords and employers would be required to check ID cards, and those who did not hold one would be “outed” as a result.

Of course, trying to enforce this in practice would not be as easy as we’d like to think. It might make more employers and landlords think twice about employing or letting to non ID card holders, though.

It’s one of those issues where most people are not bothered much, but there is a small percentage of society that goes absolutely NUTS when the subject is broached, and politicians are wary of this group.

I think that the public’s attitude towards ID cards has really moved on since Tony Blair first tried to talk about the topic. There is concern about people smuggling/illegal migration, for one thing. And in a world where people are putting their digital details and lifestyle information all over the web for everyone to see, it seems almost…. Quaint? To be worrying about ID cards?

They work fine in other countries. Perhaps make them voluntary to start, to reduce the huffing and puffing among the minority who really hate the idea.

Fair enough...so are we saying that if you have either one of those things you don't need an ID card?

No point in doubling up, is there?

What does this mean exactly?

what would it add to a standard Identification card?

why do people think we need such cards?

ive never been asked for ID for decades...maybe i'm just off grid; what could you use an ID card for that would be a good thing compared to what happens now?

Driving Licence

The other thought I had was who would profit from the introduction of ID cards?
Reckon Horizon would get the contract! Then we are all screwed!

You have only to look at the mess created when they were trying to merge various NHS IT systems just a few years ago to see how hugely difficult and expensive it would be to set up and manage a single database of some 60 million citizens -- as I recall the tech people at that time were saying that in such huge databases an error rate of around five to 10 percent is perfectly acceptable. (Not to mention the very serious threat of the database being hacked..)
That would be up to six million people at any one time who could find that their ID cards would be wrong or unusable for multiple reasons. And yes, you might not have to carry them at all times (at least initially) but if asked for them you would have to produce them within a certain period of time. Probably at a police station.
This is before considering the truly enormous costs involved. We would have to pay for them. As I recall the cost when they were being touted a few years ago was about the same as a passport. (80 quid). They would have to be renewed with a new photo every few years, and paid for again and again, just like a passport.
And i doubt very much that you would be able to use them for foreign travel so you would still need a passport as well. After all, do we accept a French person's carte d'identité at the UK border? No, they have to have a passport to enter the country.
I'm not even going to go into the whole civil liberties issue. But for those who say they
do not have any problem with them, why should this over-ride the many and valid concerns of those who do?

This.

In a free country no one who isn't doing anything wrong should have to justify themselves or identify themselves.

The amount of privilege in the mindset of someone who has no problem carrying ID is significant. Many people could not do so reliably and securely.
Police already have the power to require someone who is acting suspiciously to identify themselves, they just need reasonable grounds to do so. Introducing compulsory ID cards makes "walking along the street" a suspicious behaviour if someone isn't carrying a handbag/wallet.

ID cards are in the authoritarian's toolkit. Those calling for them are those who want to make sure that everyone knows who is in the "in" crowd and who is in the "out" crowd so as to better organise uniting all those who are "in" to properly hate and exclude those who are "out", because controlling a population under authoritarianism requires an "out" category to be hated so that people don't start noticing that the state itself is becoming an ever-more worthy thing to oppose.

When we have liberty it is right and proper that there's a fuzzy, permeable and sometimes non-existent boundary between those who are conforming to the establishment and those who aren't. It's totally possible to have safeguards against harmful behaviours without requiring university conformity.

I can only see it as useful for those without passports or drivers licence.
Papers please isn't a society that I'd willingly walk in to.

I am totally in favour of ID cards. Bring it on!

I wish blairs government had got on with getting them in as the conservatives would not have been able to deport wind rush people.

Would it 'stop the boats' or would there still be sufficient employers who would turn a blind eye...

It's not...

I agree about the impact if brexit and the deliberate slow processing of asylum seekers. But asylum seekers don't get a huge amount of benefits.

And no I don't think ID cards are necessary. I didn't vote labour when John Prescott was pushing for it.
Have it as an alternative for those without passports or drivers license but otherwise unnecessary.

Nope. I know from memory my NI number and my original NHS number.