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Identity Cards: yes or no?

393 replies

Papyrophile · 09/09/2024 20:38

Gerard Darminin, French Home Secretary equivalent, has said that the UK is making itself a migrant target because we have no national officially issued ID card proving entitlement.

I, a very ordinary citizen, already have an NHS number issued at birth, and a National Insurance number sent to me at 16, neither of which has changed. I also have a passport number, due for renewal next year, a driver's license and a Government Gateway number for my occasional exchanges with officialdom.

Why would anyone who has nothing to hide from the authorities prefer not to hold an official proof of identity?

OP posts:
Papyrophile · 10/09/2024 20:46

I don't disagree with any of that @XenoBitch . But in reality, it will be on your phone so you will have it on you almost all of the time. That's just how the tech is

OP posts:
XenoBitch · 10/09/2024 20:44

I think it would be good for people that can't have a driving license, or afford a passport. And it should be voluntary.
But I would be against it being law to have them on your person at all times. That is crossing a line, to me.

Papyrophile · 10/09/2024 20:41

But I embrace technology and what it can and should be doing to make life easier. I worked from home since 1990, and I am extremely cautious about my digital presence. I also shred every single piece of post that has my name and address on it before I recycle it.

OP posts:
Papyrophile · 10/09/2024 20:36

Sorry, I'm 68.

OP posts:
Pinkyponki · 10/09/2024 20:35

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Papyrophile · 10/09/2024 20:31

@Pinkyponki , that is just daft. We have poached and borrowed good practices since forever. Our population, on the voting for this thread, does believe that an ID card is sensible. In my mind's eye, it's on your phone not taking up any space.

Yes, you passed your driving test and have no points on your licence.
Your vehicle is MoT'd and insured, and you've paid road tax.
You are xx years old and fine to buy a bottle of wine.

You are registered to vote in your constituency.

Your NHS # is and you are diabetic Type 1 and allergic to penicillin, which could save your life in an ambulance.

Your tax is paid to date and you have no CCJs outstanding.
Your next of kin/emergency contact number is........

The technology to grant limited necessary access to databases is available, and it could make most of the routine aspects of life smoother, and the emergencies easier and more fluent.

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Ilovetowander · 10/09/2024 20:25

ID cards would make it so much easier for the police - law abiding citizens have nothing to fear. In my view they should be provided for free - unlike passports so everyone has one. I would also help with regard to illegal immigration as those people who were not here legally would not have an ID card.

Pinkyponki · 10/09/2024 20:04

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LoobyDoop2 · 10/09/2024 20:03

Why would anyone who has nothing to hide from the authorities prefer not to hold an official proof of identity?

Lots of very sensible reasons that have mostly been vindicated by history. I don’t know. I was vehemently opposed to ID cards when the Blair government tried to introduce them. Ideologically, I still am. But the world has changed, and I think they might be the only practical way to deal with the threats we face now- both in the physical world from terrorism, and online from fraud, child exploitation and so on. The main thing that worries me about them now is the risk of the government fucking it up and making things like identity theft even easier, whilst simultaneously making it harder to recover from.

Maddy70 · 10/09/2024 19:58

I don't live in the uk. We have to carry compulsory id cards. Its really not an issue

Battlerope · 10/09/2024 19:57

The cost of a passport in the UK is a disgrace.

Australian passports make them seem like a bargain.

Brefugee · 10/09/2024 19:54

have not RTFT. One of the main functions of Government ID in the countries that have it, is to show who you are and where you live. Other forms of photo id don't generally do that, or are easy to get fake/fraudulent ones.

It would make a lot of things much easier. My german friends in the UK are aghast at the idiotic (to them) forms of "ID" needed to open a bank accout. An ID card does the ob.

MrsLeonFarrell · 10/09/2024 19:54

Having had an offspring recently have to prove identity without having a passport or bills etc and found it a right pain I'd welcome anything that made it more straight forward. Plus it would be something everyone could use at the polling station.

But only if it is free. I don't think those on lower incomes should have to pay to make the government's life easier.

Pinkyponki · 10/09/2024 19:51

This reply has been deleted

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brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 10/09/2024 19:50

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Hope you’re being sarcastic. Hard to tell.

LivGo · 10/09/2024 19:50

I live in a European country with ID cards and also have another ID card from South America. To be fair, I was sceptical to begin with, but now I understand it. It makes accessing services very straightforward and the system works well. In terms of cost, it's far better value than the UK! €25 for a passport (same day) and €10 for the ID card. The cost of a passport in the UK is a disgrace.

HappiestSleeping · 10/09/2024 19:47

Badbadbunny · 10/09/2024 19:24

Not sure that all the different departments would need to collaborate at all. I'm pretty sure we've moved away from the idea of having all the databases integrated with each other and mountains of data on the card itself.

Basically, all it needs is to prove identity, i.e. basic details of the person, such as photo, and preferably other biometric data, maybe face recognition as extra proof. It would hold limited data, such as your NiNo, NHS number, passport number/driving licence number (if applicable), nationality, residence status, etc.

Officials wanting to access data, could swipe/scan the card for the basic ID data and interrogate their own database only in accordance with their access permissions.

I.e. a paramedic or doctor could scan the card to get NHS number and then read the data via whatever NHS database holds it.

Police could scan/read the card to interrogate the PNC, criminal records, driving licence, etc.

Border force officials could read/scan the card to check right to work in the UK, visa status, etc from their own database.

I think we've long moved on from the initial ideas of having your entire medical history or criminal record ON the card itself.

In theory that would work, but I fear all those databases are not nearly as advanced as one might expect. They certainly haven't been in my experience.

The barrier isn't the technology, it is the will to make it happen.

Pinkyponki · 10/09/2024 19:36

This reply has been deleted

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Sadlynotright · 10/09/2024 19:33

It’s a yes from me, I’ve lived in another European country and I had an identity number. Everything was linked to this number, you needed it to work and to get routine medical treatments etc. I once went to get an injection but because I’d finished work the following week I was not allowed to have it.
The French politician is correct.

Badbadbunny · 10/09/2024 19:24

HappiestSleeping · 10/09/2024 07:29

Yeah, it would not be an easy switch. Not because it isn't technically possible, but because too many different and unlinked departments would have to collaborate. Also the people would object. Despite the fact that we essentially have ID cards now in varying forms, I don't think there is sufficient appetite from the public yet.

Not sure that all the different departments would need to collaborate at all. I'm pretty sure we've moved away from the idea of having all the databases integrated with each other and mountains of data on the card itself.

Basically, all it needs is to prove identity, i.e. basic details of the person, such as photo, and preferably other biometric data, maybe face recognition as extra proof. It would hold limited data, such as your NiNo, NHS number, passport number/driving licence number (if applicable), nationality, residence status, etc.

Officials wanting to access data, could swipe/scan the card for the basic ID data and interrogate their own database only in accordance with their access permissions.

I.e. a paramedic or doctor could scan the card to get NHS number and then read the data via whatever NHS database holds it.

Police could scan/read the card to interrogate the PNC, criminal records, driving licence, etc.

Border force officials could read/scan the card to check right to work in the UK, visa status, etc from their own database.

I think we've long moved on from the initial ideas of having your entire medical history or criminal record ON the card itself.

TigerRag · 10/09/2024 19:16

moonshinepoursthroughmywindow · 10/09/2024 09:22

I don't have any problem with universal ID cards but accept that the majority are never going to agree to them. However. I think it would be an extremely good idea if there was an optional (and preferably free or very low cost) ID card for those who don't want/can't afford/aren't eligible for a driving licence or passport. I know there is a Proof of Age card but that seems a ridiculous thing for someone over the age of about 30 to have to get.

France and Austria seem to manage just fine with ID cards, without everybody getting up in arms about it.

So many places don't accept the Proof of Age card. I ended up getting a passport (as I can't get a driving licence) just for ID.

SiobhanSharpe · 10/09/2024 19:03

I'm not so sure they do in fact 'work very well' in other countries -- perhaps we should ask a young Frenchman of North African origin his opinions on them?
Brcause, let's face it, it's not going to be generally white, middle class British women of a certain age who will routinely be asked to produce them, is it?

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 10/09/2024 09:31

Of course we should have them. Trouble is, the issue has become some sort of sacred cow, like the NHS being free at the point of use. ‘We can’t do it, because we never have’ (except in wartime) - despite the fact that they work very well in so many other countries.

moonshinepoursthroughmywindow · 10/09/2024 09:22

I don't have any problem with universal ID cards but accept that the majority are never going to agree to them. However. I think it would be an extremely good idea if there was an optional (and preferably free or very low cost) ID card for those who don't want/can't afford/aren't eligible for a driving licence or passport. I know there is a Proof of Age card but that seems a ridiculous thing for someone over the age of about 30 to have to get.

France and Austria seem to manage just fine with ID cards, without everybody getting up in arms about it.

legrandcolbert · 10/09/2024 08:49

I have zero problem with identity cards. Other countries have them so really cannot see an issue with us having them. Also, for those whom don't have a passport or driving licence, it will be a godsend, particularly for things like voting.

Never understood the fuss some make about this topic. It's a non-topic.

Edited for typo 🙄