To give you the pensioners facts

There were problems in earlier days due to lack of proper regulations, but there have been far more stringent safeguards for the last 30 years or so, including compensation schemes when firms go bankrupt or in cases of fraud. So, what happened decades ago isn't really an excuse for people not making their own provisions over the past 20-30 years.

Yes, incidences like Robert Maxwell put some people off contributing to pension schemes, but it's a numbers game. The vast majority of savers have done incredibly well over the past 20-40 years of saving into pensions. It's only a very small minority who lost "all" of their pension monies, and even then, most still had a decade or two or three to mitigate the losses by continuing to invest.

Sorry, but to say "look at Maxwell" and others as an excuse not to make your own pension provisions is just that - an excuse. Fair enough, people planning to retire 20 years ago may well have been badly impacted by schemes like that going bust, but that's history and people retiring today have had 20-30 years of potential savings under much better regulation and protection. If they really didn't want to risk pension fund collapse, they'd still be relatively healthily provided for if they'd paid into savings accounts instead, especially tax free ISAs which is a common alternative to formal pension scheme investments.

If I have one hope of the recent WASPI pensions changes and other pension scheme collapses of decades ago, it's that people make more attempt to look after themselves pensionwise throughout their working life. Hopefully, the relatively modern compulsory workplace pensions will get more people investing for their own future and taking more responsibility for themselves. Even better with free investment advice from the Govt funding "Pensionwise" that removes the excuse of people not wanting to pay for professional advice (which in many cases isn't needed anyway these days with the pre-packed diverse pension funds!)

Lucky you that you knew about such things and that your workplace enabled this.
Working in a corner shop in a pit village was a bit different.

Why would I look? Because I knew pension plans existed. Also, most of my career was in the public sector (did not stop my civil service contributions being lost).

I think you mean Equitable Life.

Yes, I do. It was a long time ago.

I think you mean Equitable Life.

As a trainee accountant during that period, I remember quite a few small business clients had started their own pension schemes, one I vividly remember was a dealership garage with only around 15 staff.

In that case, you must remember Equity Life? As you know, self employed people had to make their own pension arrangements. DH had an IFA, and he must have acted on their advice. He was paying maximum contributions into about 6 pensions, one of which was Equity Life. He lost everything he had put into Equity Life. I imagine everyone else did too?

“In fact, for every 10 years older a voter is, their chance of voting Tory increases by around nine points and the chance of them voting Labour decreases by nine points. The tipping point, that is the age at which a voter is more likely to have voted Conservative than Labour, is now 47 – up from 34 at the start of the campaign.”

Information on the 2017 election.

Such a truly bizzare point to argue.

The figures do not prove that most over 65s vote Tory. You'd need figures from all elections since e.g. 1918 to prove that.
I do not, that is not remotely relevant to the current political climate.

Why would you look for information that you didn't know existed?
When I did start a full time job once both my children were at school, I paid into a pension for the 8 years I was there. When I left, I asked the man who did the payroll what happened about my pension and he told me that it would be saved until I reached pension age. it turned out that the owner of the company was a crook who stole the pension fund.
We had no idea how it worked at the time and didn't know that we should be getting yearly statements.

Even today, I have a very hard time "encouraging" my clients to pay into private pension schemes. It's been a very tax-efficient form of investment and long term planning for decades, yet still lots of people aren't interested.

Sometimes, I really despair! Especially when I'm doing tax returns for retired clients who are receiving healthy/hefty pensions from a lifetime of paying in, often relatively, modest amounts over a long period of time, but where their funds have seen very high growth, enhanced by the "compound" effect too!

@StandingSideBySide

Nothing was available unless you could afford professional advice ( not even in the zone for the majority ) and even they made huge mistakes with their recommendations.

Not my experience at all.

I worked for three different (very small) firms in the 80s. Two provided their own pension schemes. All three brought in pension firms to give presentations. The firm who didn't provide their own scheme still encouraged staff to join "a" scheme and said they'd pay in some employer contributions too!

Even the polytechnic where I did day-release for accountancy qualifications put on a presentation one day instead of one of our usual lectures about private pensions and contracting out.

Yes, the pension firms were keen to push pensions, and I suppose some people could have misinterpreted it as nothing but a hard sell, but the information really was out there.

As a trainee accountant during that period, I remember quite a few small business clients had started their own pension schemes, one I vividly remember was a dealership garage with only around 15 staff.

Pension info was a big thing in the 80's. SERPS was introduced in the late 70s with a lot of fanfare and the pension firms and most employers were very active in the early to mid 80s.

Fair enough that private pensions up to then, especially for women, were limited and pretty poor options. But the entire landscape changed in the 80s!

People retiring now were in their 20s when the SERPS came in and was being pushed heavily.

One of the firms I worked at in the 80s made a massive effort to set up a decent workplace pension scheme and did all kinds of things to get people to join the scheme. The take up was pitifully low, especially amongst female staff! I remember several meetings where the low take up was discussed and efforts made to get more people joining the scheme.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink!

A majority of over 65s voted Tory in 2019. This is the Brexit election. Many Labour voters voted Tory to get Brexit, since Labour refused to accept their members wanted to leave the (gravy-train) EU. I voted Tory. I am a life-long Bennite socialist (to the workers by hand or by brain, the full fruits of their labour, Clause 4 of the Labour Party constitution before T. Blair had it removed) so of course I voted Tory - to achieve what I had already voted for: Brexit. Tony Benn was against the UK joining the EEC/EC/EU, describing it as a cartel involved in removing national sovereignty - which is spot on. He remained of this opinion until his death. Eurosceptism was the policy of the Labour Party until the late 1990s, when New Labour changed it.
The figures do not prove that most over 65s vote Tory. You'd need figures from all elections since e.g. 1918 to prove that.

It feels like an attack to us who despise this greed and grabbing.

I don’t know why people argue with proven voting trends or act like it’s some sort of attack.
Across the demographic older voters are more likely to vote conservative by quite a proportion.

Here is the voting breakdown for 2019, this isn’t unique to this election.

Around 60% of those aged 65 and over voted conservative, so yes a majority of pensioners do vote Tory.

'The current average Tory voter is aged 62, voted for Brexit, and has voted Conservative in previous elections. Polling from More in Common shows that Conservative voters are slightly more likely to be white, and more than half are comfortable financially.' (Source, Independent).
I am quoting this again since I missed pointing out the conflation of 'average...age 62' and 'slightly more likely to be white...comfortable financially'. Putting two things together in this way makes it look as if they are linked when they are not. This is not proof of most pensioners voting Conservative, nor that such pensioners are mostly white and better off, but putting age+white+better off in the same paragraph makes it look as though it is pensioners who are these things. It's disengenuous to say the least.

You had to look for information, which meant asking union officials, asking employers, asking government offices. Sometimes there were leaflets in the library and occasionally there was a public service announcement on the BBC.

Yes, I was one of the first mothers to get NI contributions since my DS was born at the end of 1978, I also had some home responsibility payments and family allowance for him, too. I was not part-time until I took a teaching job when my son was 8 or 9 - 1988 - and by then part-time teachers were included in the pension scheme. Women now do not realise how far we have come. I was refused a job and a place at teacher training college because I was married, as late as 1972. My teacher pension is not very big - I was made redundant in 2000 (I was an ESL teacher), when the whole of city's schools were re-organised after it became a unitary authority. I took to supply teaching but that did not allow me to pay into the teachers' pension fund and I could not afford to invest in the small private pension I had.

The ‘information’ you are referring to it seems is adverts for pensions.

Stuff in the post from a mail shot from pension providers.
The more wide information which we can access now
ie
comparing pension providers
legal and tax implications
the difference between markets and investments
how to protect your pension / money
recommendations from the Government. ‘Back in the day’ the Government didn’t even mention private pensions as they knew the majority couldn’t afford them.
etc etc

Nothing was available unless you could afford professional advice ( not even in the zone for the majority ) and even they made huge mistakes with their recommendations.

The Mail shots also weren’t available to all in all addresses and my practice ( all of them ) didn't provide anything other than what they provided.

Well I must have imagined it then?

I cant remember - but I was working in retail at the time. I got the message, maybe adverts from Pension places, its 30+ years ago for me

I have also put money in to pensions in EVERY job I have had

Exactly.
The information wasn’t there.
We couldn’t just ‘Google it’.

Each time I moved jobs my new office refused to take on my previous pension. Every time
I ended up with 5 pensions before the Government stepped in and changed things to force employers to pick up past pensions
Over the years three of my early pensions have been lost in management fees.
My other two were able to be transferred ( because of Government changes ) to one pension.

So with the best will in the world many people with private pensions not working for the Government kept an eye on things and still lost everything.
Protections haven’t always been in place for many of us.

Where was the information?

The women in the present generation wouldn’t have the equal rights and job opportunities, they have today, if the previous generations of women, now pensioners hadn’t fought for them

This is what most posters on threads like these seem to forget. I agree with what a previous poster said too - the struggle these days is no better or worse, it’s just different.

@Grammarnut just a small point, there were no NI credits when my first child was born in 1970. Initially called Home Responsibilities credits they were introduced in 1978, and I was back working by then. Similarly, Child Benefit/Family Allowance wasn’t paid for the first child until 1977. We older female pensioners are the most unlikely to have occupational or private pensions. As a part timer, I couldn't join my company scheme, which I did as soon as I went full time.