Exhausted by phone battle with DD12

‘the only problem is - the child can just delete it off their phone! while obviouslyk that is a punishable offence - the problem is if they are out somewhere like a sleepover and the temptation of spending hours more on tik tok overtakes them.

so I stopped using qustudio for that reason but perhaps I was missing a trick on stopping him removing it.’

Neither kid has tried deleting it, plus you get instant notifications for deleting apps, activity, they have to ask permission to add anything so your kid must have been super sneaky and using both their phone and yours and knowing all the passwords AND. Going to a lot of trouble to do all that underhandedly.
My kid know that the price of having a smart phone is we use Qustodio, we limit what they can and can’t have and when they can use phones and there is ZERO discussion around it.
or they get a dumb phone.
TBH they’ve never really rebelled against this and at night the phones are downstairs and switched off.

Highly recommend using an independent app like Qustodio- it’s great for controlling what they use and when.

@ScrollingLeaves
3 hrs is a lot Indeed, but depends on what it’s used for…fhe reality is with apps runnning in the background the time can get used even when they are using it. And they don’t often use all that time because they have no SM and the messaging apps are limited to 1hour.

Ironic you picked music though, because both children are grade 6 in instruments, one grade 5 vocal and performs in musical theatre! They use Spotify to listen to music - and this also uses up their ‘time’.
They use Duo Lingo for school - uses up time.And they also often do their language quiz lets on their phone rather than my laptop - uses time.

And I have just checked Qustodio now - one kid has used 30mins on their phone today so far, walked to and from school, had an after school instrument lesson here, did some chores & walked dog.
The other one used phone for 17 mins today so far - walked to school etc, had an after school sport, walked home, instrument lesson, dinner… phones banned entirely in school from the second they walk through the gates until they leave.

They also both play competitive sport.
And their phones shut off at 8pm.

@ScrollingLeaves you are right about 3 hours a day replacing music/ art etc. We are losing an entire generation of musicians and artists - it's so obvious. Not just phones but gaming as well which my son is v into. Luckily - he is very sporty and loves being outdoors so that keeps him off screens to a huge degree compared to some other children.

but - at home - the lure is always to the screen.

qustudio is a good app - for some reason the apple one we use sometimes resets/ doesn't work but I can't work out if that is my own child being really really sneaky and getting hold of our phones to change it!

Qustudio is extremely clear - especially if you pay for it - it can be used on multiple devices and all controlled from your own phone

the only problem is - the child can just delete it off their phone! while obviouslyk that is a punishable offence - the problem is if they are out somewhere like a sleepover and the temptation of spending hours more on tik tok overtakes them.

so I stopped using qustudio for that reason but perhaps I was missing a trick on stopping him removing it.

You can become a very good pianist/ artist etc with 3 hrs a day!

Use Qustodio or a similar app. You can control time, see when she uses it, block certain apps , limit time on apps and TAKE it off her for non compliance.
Let her get bored. If she moans tell her to go away, go to room.
Delete TikTok and other SM.
She is 12 and needs her parents to help her regulate.
Plan B - there are new ‘dumb’ phones that allow you to still have WhatsApp, text and call but do little else.

Our 12 & 14 year old have time limited to 3 hours a day, have Snap with a daily monitor 1 hour and no other SM of any kind. YouTube is available on the family telly.

They are sociable kids, with a wide circle of friends - contrary to what some believe they aren’t left out of anything because of limited screen time.

You have mentioned a few times the apps your DD is not on, which is good. But she still has the internet? If so, all she has to do is Google ‘cutting’ ‘self-harm’ etc and thousands will come up. If she googled anything to do with sex ( natural curiosity) piles will come up including porn.

Of she is too body conscious for dancing at the moment might that could be because of leotards etc? What about a form of dancing where she could wear joggers, such as street dance?

Her hobby is crotchet (I think I remember you mentioned?) If so that sounds brilliant. It connects body to mind naturally through the hands, but in a soothing, absorbing way where cutting is dissociative. Maybe go out and find a special pattern and project together? A blanket for a hospital/hospice charity? Something lovely to wear?

Do lots together all the time. Try not to leave a vacuum she gets sucked into. Cooking? Walking? Watching a film together?

Another hobby that might help her is riding? Being with horses is well known therapy for troubled children. The horse will ‘be with her’ without looking at her body.
Is there a local centre offering (riding and looking after ponies) for troubled children? The GP coukd do social prescribing maybe or there might be a charity attached to help if you cannot afford it.

Well done for getting your own diagnosis. That cannot have been easy. How devastating and misunderstood PMDD is. How brilliant of you. You matter too.

A 12 year old is underage for those apps anyway. Why are parents letting them use things like WhatsApp when it causes so many problems?

“I won’t let my 12-year-old have a smartphone until she’s 16” by Fleur Britten.

Thank you very much for the link and token, but please would you give the headline as I could not find the article?

Schools are doing their bit with banning, but you wouldn't believe the hostility and negativity from many parents. @waterrat I hear what you're saying, but if it becomes a poisoned relationship, then you need to get support. They'll probably be upset and difficult, but if it veers into such toxicity, something has gone wrong.
It's not easy. It does need strong parenting, but I'm glad to see that people have posted various support sites on here, and good suggestions.

I'm afraid it never got better until I had a hysterectomy and ovaries removed.

I really want to add to this thread - that parent shaming is really so incredibly unhelpful

Parents - and I know this because I'm living it - are really really struggling to control these incredibly addictive devices. If you take them away - you face a poisoned aggressive relationship with the child you love. If you limit them there is endless complaining and nagging.

Previous generations of parents were not trying daily to battle the IMMENSELY addictive nature of the technology being put in childrens hands.

I agree of course wholeheartedly that parents have a responsibility to ensure children are safe - but this is a societal level problem and will never be fixed by parents alone

the big tech companies are behaving in horrific and immoral ways - luring kids into apps like snapchat with deliberately addictive features like 'snap streaks' etc.

Of course children want to be part of these crazes etc, the apps encourage it - busy working parents have to fight tech daily -

I think as parents we need to all support each other - and accept this stuff is HARD to handle.

[[This is a really good article on smartphones.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/6f261e48-c2b3-4ef1-9ad7-26c5bca54f1b?shareToken=f66c171d4de9f26e3ff89a7e0f04cf2f]]

I don’t have a magic solution. My children are not allowed devices in their rooms and I have just taken my daughter off the class group chat (not because it was awful, just so high volume that it was stressing her out). No Whatsapp, Snapchat, TikTok. They still spend too long on devices though.

Can you get her out doing a sport, or something like riding, on a very regular basis? It is telling that she got on so well with the camping.

What does she hate about school? Maybe she has good reason.

How could you help? Is it the work? Help her yourself or get help with that. Is it bullying? Is it that she has no friends?

Your DD sounds like my DS. He is also 12, obvious signs of starting puberty, he also has some medical problems that cause him a lot of anxiety. He was previously addicted to certain video games which we have had to ban. The addiction has switched to phone and we do have time limits etc but he too would do anything than read a book, go out with friends, etc. Homework and getting up for school is challenging. But I’m mindful it’s his low mood causing a lot of this poor behaviour.

We do also insist on checking his phone on an ad hoc basis, that was a condition of getting it.

She sounds unhappy too. We’re lucky school is being supportive but it’s still tough getting MH support for young people

Would she chat to someone online? The Kooth service looks good (my son won’t use this as yet but I do suggest it to him whenever he’s struggling)

Have you tried googling if there are any services for young people locally? We have a drop in service that gives 12 sessions, no referral or waiting lists. Again my son isn’t interested but I have it in my tool kit. I had to find this myself as our GP was literally ‘well if he’s not standing on a bridge we can’t do a lot.’

Poor girl. She seems very unhappy,
I would be more worried about her self harming, did something happen? Is she being bullied online? Groomed?

Definitely you need to sort out parental controls on her phone but my priority would be fixing your relationship with her and finding out what's wrong.

Our 13 yo has screen time limit on hers so she can't go on it after 9pm. We also can screen every website or Google search she makes. She has to get permission to install any apps and to visit some sites. We use Microsoft family safety as well as screen time limits on the actual phone (iPhone).

I’m afraid that without controls on her phone she does have access to the whole internet. She can look at TikTok without an account or the app by going via the browser and searching hashtags etc. She can use the browser to access pretty much anything including Reddit, anonymous chat forums with strangers, porn etc. I’m not saying she does, but until you put a safety app on her phone etc, she can.

Very good point. Starting periods at 11 is completely normal & not ‘early’ at all. Body changes at this age are also normal.

What’s she doing on her phone all the time if she hasn’t got social media and only kids you tube?

You seem very sensitive to criticism OP sounds like she maybe following you and a gentle approach is needed, can you try and connect with her through her phone interests?