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Or should GP surgery's not be allowed to advertise themselves as 'pro-life'?

184 replies

Clownwithafrown · 08/09/2024 22:15

I'm job hunting and came across an ad for a medical receptionist at a GP surgery. I wasn't sure where exactly this particular surgery was so googled it and this statement was on the home page; 'The Doctors here at xxxx Surgery are committed to a 'pro-life' policy. This means that the Doctors value each individual’s 'life' from conception to natural death.'

I'm not reading that wrong am I, they are stating that they're anti abortion aren't they? Surely that shouldn't be allowed at an NHS practice should it? I'm a bit gobsmacked that it's blatantly there on the home page, literally the first thing you see when you click on the site. And it clearly means all the doctors, I mean obviously people don't have to register with that surgery but for there to be no options for those who already are registered just doesn't seem right to me. Does anyone know if this is actually allowed?

OP posts:
Lorelaigilmore88 · 09/09/2024 00:48

copingwithreception · 09/09/2024 00:12

Well we don’t know that for definite - it needs to be a direct question to the surgery. I’ve seen issues where someone has been unaware of what a certain phrase means and I would hold off on judgement till they have clarified their position.

Most people know what pro life refers to in a medical capacity, and doctors especially would. It's not ambiguous.

Longtimelurkerfinallyposts · 09/09/2024 00:41

GPs have always been able to opt out, citing conscientious objection to abortion. I know they're supposed to signpost women to other services/ providers, but I've always worried that in a time-sensitive situation, they might well cause delays and make it harder to get seen somewhere else in time.
Any time I've become a patient at a new surgery, I've checked that my GP is pro-choice and willing to support my right to have an abortion. Luckily I've never needed one.

copingwithreception · 09/09/2024 00:38

ThatAgileGoldMoose · 09/09/2024 00:36

If a doctors surgery doesn't know what the term pro-life means, and/or haven't has it proof read by appropriately senior people then I would be questioning their professionalism and fitness to practice there, too.

I'd be outraged if I saw this on my GP's website. It's one thing an individual having a preference, it is quite another for a whole surgery to take a stance like this.

Healthcare providers should be neutral. If they can't be neutral, perhaps they shouldn't be in the job.

Also ... last time I checked GPs don't offer abortion services, they would need to refer you on to a clinic. So surely it's irrelevant as well as inappropriate for them to have a position statement on this, as none of the professionals in the practice would be conducting a termination anyway, and they can't by law refuse to refer you.

Edited

I agree with you they should know what the term means - I think it’s an offensive mistake looking at the policy ? They need to amend it as they seem to offer all the services you’d expect ? So ‘pro life’ is just not correct

ThatAgileGoldMoose · 09/09/2024 00:36

copingwithreception · 09/09/2024 00:12

Well we don’t know that for definite - it needs to be a direct question to the surgery. I’ve seen issues where someone has been unaware of what a certain phrase means and I would hold off on judgement till they have clarified their position.

If a doctors surgery doesn't know what the term pro-life means, and/or haven't has it proof read by appropriately senior people then I would be questioning their professionalism and fitness to practice there, too.

I'd be outraged if I saw this on my GP's website. It's one thing an individual having a preference, it is quite another for a whole surgery to take a stance like this.

Healthcare providers should be neutral. If they can't be neutral, perhaps they shouldn't be in the job.

Also ... last time I checked GPs don't offer abortion services, they would need to refer you on to a clinic. So surely it's irrelevant as well as inappropriate for them to have a position statement on this, as none of the professionals in the practice would be conducting a termination anyway, and they can't by law refuse to refer you.

copingwithreception · 09/09/2024 00:35

This is the policy

Or should GP surgery's not be allowed to advertise themselves as 'pro-life'?
TempestTost · 09/09/2024 00:33

Conscientious objection is protected under the law the same way that if euthanasia ever became legal doctors would not be obligated to do it. There is a lot lost if people who have different views around things like when it is or is not ok to end life are prevented from entering medical practice.

FWIW, there are women who would prefer a practice that is pro life, I've known a number of Catholic women who felt really pressured by doctors or belittled and wanted doctors who shared or at least respected their religious beliefs and were able to make recommendations within those parameters.

copingwithreception · 09/09/2024 00:32

I’ve found the policy information- it states they offer contraceptives and that they refer to the appropriate service provider for terminations which is what all GPs do as they don’t perform them at gp surgeries so I really don’t think this is an anti abortion practice .

copingwithreception · 09/09/2024 00:20

They offer contraceptive services but i couldn’t see any further information about MAP etc. OP should clarify with the partners at the surgery so they can elaborate on this policy as it’s very vague.

copingwithreception · 09/09/2024 00:12

StuckOnTheCeiling · 08/09/2024 23:34

No, that is not what it means. It means they will not support women seeking the morning after pill or abortion.

Well we don’t know that for definite - it needs to be a direct question to the surgery. I’ve seen issues where someone has been unaware of what a certain phrase means and I would hold off on judgement till they have clarified their position.

herecomesthesondodedoodoo · 09/09/2024 00:02

@Icanthinkformyselfthanks Did you not bother to read the poster above you who had to have a medical abortion due to her baby passing away? And you still think abortions are 'infanticide'? How on earth anyone can say something so willfully ignorant and cruel after that blows my mind.

LawrieForShepherdsBoy · 08/09/2024 23:56

Wow - that’s crazy. Would you feel comfortable sharing a link?

BobbyBiscuits · 08/09/2024 23:54

If it means they won't give MAP, then you'd better hope somewhere else nearby will, as obviously it's time sensitive.
I have to say it would put me off using them. Never mind working there.

Babyboomtastic · 08/09/2024 23:45

If it's the only GP practice covering a large rural area, I'd have concerns, but assuming it's a town/city practice then it's being upfront and it's upto people when they sign up or go elsewhere.

For many people abortion IS an ethical issue and making it a compulsory service that a medical professional must supply means that many doctors won't be able to continue their job. I think we have a decent balance in the UK so that doctors aren't forced to make decisions they disagree with or leave their job, but also ensuring that women can access abortion services.

I've never heard of an entire pro life GP practice though.

StuckOnTheCeiling · 08/09/2024 23:34

copingwithreception · 08/09/2024 23:30

I would suspect they have just mistakenly used the term ‘pro life’ to put across the message they will support all patients from conception eg to mean they will support pregnant women . They probably need to just change the wording as it may not mean they are anti abortion at all (and would be extremely strange as a whole surgery to have that stance when the nhs offers abortion- individual doctors can be but they need to refer on to a colleague who can offer the referral )

No, that is not what it means. It means they will not support women seeking the morning after pill or abortion.

copingwithreception · 08/09/2024 23:30

I would suspect they have just mistakenly used the term ‘pro life’ to put across the message they will support all patients from conception eg to mean they will support pregnant women . They probably need to just change the wording as it may not mean they are anti abortion at all (and would be extremely strange as a whole surgery to have that stance when the nhs offers abortion- individual doctors can be but they need to refer on to a colleague who can offer the referral )

Icanthinkformyselfthanks · 08/09/2024 23:23

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HelloMyNameIsElderSmurf · 08/09/2024 23:17

Well I think it's good that they 'advertise' it because then women can make a choice to absolutely not register at a practice that doesn't offer perfectly legal healthcare services.

I feel that their values might not quite align with mine, so it's not somewhere I'd consider working,

Summerhillsquare · 08/09/2024 23:17

It's shockingly inappropriate, and displays a worrying ignorance for supposedly scientifically minded professionals. Abortion is a necessary healthcare procedure for some women, and denying legal abortion leads to tragedy, injury and death.

ThomasPatrickKeatingsDegas · 08/09/2024 23:03

Unbelievable! Please write to your MP for clarification about this. I’m Christian (Anglican) and I think this is absolutely abhorrent. I had to have a late abortion because the baby’s heart wasn’t beating and I didn’t miscarry naturally. It was hideous but I could have died without it. All women should have the choice to do this, no women should have to go to their GP then be turned away by a prolifer, especially if there is domestic abuse, where is the duty of care. I’m sorry doctors shouldn’t be practicing in a NHS GP surgery if there pro life views impact patients. Surgeries are so over prescribed these days women may not have the choice of choosing an alternative. (Or they may not even advertise their pro life views when new patients sign up)

Haroldwilson · 08/09/2024 22:52

They're allowed, rightly or wrongly. At least they are signposting it clearly rather than letting women register then find out they can't access basic services. I wonder if they also refuse IVF, morning after pill etc.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/09/2024 22:49

PermanentTemporary · 08/09/2024 22:43

I guess the good thing is that as a receptionist at the practice, you could make a huge difference by making sure you have good up to date information available on where patients can go instead for appropriate health care.

In theory perhaps, but I strongly suspect that would also go down very badly with the doctors at the practice

The same guidance applies to pharmacists - they can refuse to provide the morning after pill or even contraception, but are supposed to signpost to somewhere else that'll oblige

The key words being "supposed to" ...

PermanentTemporary · 08/09/2024 22:43

I guess the good thing is that as a receptionist at the practice, you could make a huge difference by making sure you have good up to date information available on where patients can go instead for appropriate health care.

PermanentTemporary · 08/09/2024 22:41

Well, the positive side is that they are open about it.

If I saw that poster up at my GP surgery I'd walk out and register somewhere else, but I'm lucky to have that option.

I'd expect that practice to argue the toss with me about managing my mum's symptoms and infections as well, despite the fact she's knocking on 90 with zero quality of life and they should be aggressively treating her misery, not her deterioration.

User56473 · 08/09/2024 22:35

It shouldn't be allowed. But unfortunately the NHS allows drs working within it to opt out of a key part of healthcare because it affects females. SHOCK. I've had the most horrific experience when I was effectively marooned in a hospital (not my local but in the UK) with complications due to an abortion. All the drs in the gyne department were anti abortionists who refused to treat me, yet I wasn't well enough to be discharged. I had a ebf baby at the time and didn't realise my rights as a breastfeeding mum, and that I could have insisted on baby being in with me. The whole experience still makes me seethe with rage when I think on it 5 years on. It was because of the wise women of MN that the whole situation was sorted for me actually!

newtlover · 08/09/2024 22:31

I wouldn't have thought so that would be discrimination on grounds of religion or belief

I am surprised this would be allowed but I think GP practicies may be provate businesses who sell their services to the NHS?

Obviously any individual GP can opt out of providing a particular service but I can't see how a whole practice can decline to advise/refer to a legal service