Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Or should GP surgery's not be allowed to advertise themselves as 'pro-life'?

184 replies

Clownwithafrown · 08/09/2024 22:15

I'm job hunting and came across an ad for a medical receptionist at a GP surgery. I wasn't sure where exactly this particular surgery was so googled it and this statement was on the home page; 'The Doctors here at xxxx Surgery are committed to a 'pro-life' policy. This means that the Doctors value each individual’s 'life' from conception to natural death.'

I'm not reading that wrong am I, they are stating that they're anti abortion aren't they? Surely that shouldn't be allowed at an NHS practice should it? I'm a bit gobsmacked that it's blatantly there on the home page, literally the first thing you see when you click on the site. And it clearly means all the doctors, I mean obviously people don't have to register with that surgery but for there to be no options for those who already are registered just doesn't seem right to me. Does anyone know if this is actually allowed?

OP posts:
Bloom15 · 09/09/2024 09:52

GirlOfThe70s · 09/09/2024 07:08

I live in a village with only one GP. He will not refer for terminations, nor will he prescribe the morning-after pill.

That's awful

copingwithreception · 09/09/2024 09:51

But to reiterate - they aren’t blocking any services so this statement is clearly just to assert the fact they will judge women requesting these services - it’s a nasty, passive aggressive pointless thing to do.

NeedToChangeName · 09/09/2024 09:50

newtlover · 08/09/2024 22:31

I wouldn't have thought so that would be discrimination on grounds of religion or belief

I am surprised this would be allowed but I think GP practicies may be provate businesses who sell their services to the NHS?

Obviously any individual GP can opt out of providing a particular service but I can't see how a whole practice can decline to advise/refer to a legal service

I guess all the doctors in this practice are anti abortion? Otherwise, they would direct all patients to the one(s) who isn't/aren't

AmyFarrahFowler1 · 09/09/2024 09:46

CurlewKate · 09/09/2024 06:57

Absolutely outrageous. No HCP should be forced to act against their conscience-but must refer patients on to someone else. This statement would potentially put off women seeking help in a situation where time is of the essence. Oh and @YankSplaining "I’ve heard several stories about women who were very clear with their doctors that they weren’t going to have an abortion, only to have the doctors keep bringing it up again and again."
Yeah, sure you have.

I dunno. My friend had this experience. Baby had stopped growing at 17/18 weeks I think it was, they went on and on about an abortion even after she had been clear that she wasn’t going to do that. It was a massively traumatic time for her and that aspect made her very uncomfortable. They were clear that they didn’t trust her judgment and felt she was making a mistake or taking an “unnecessary risk”.

That baby is a healthy five year old now, by the way.

CurlewKate · 09/09/2024 09:43

@FOJN "If they have an obligation to refer women seeking termination then they do not need to state their position on abortion.

It's advertising their ideological position on an aspect of healthcare, that is not neutral and therefore not professional and should not be tolerated."

This really is the crux of the matter. A doctor has no obligation to perform abortions. He or she does have an obligation to refer a patient to someone who does in a completely non judgemental way.

suziequatrosfatnan · 09/09/2024 09:32

Signposting it clearly means they shouldn't use the coy term 'pro-life' and use plain English

They need to use the phrase 'forced birth'

"We believe in forced birth meaning that if you are pregnant you must continue to give birth whether it will risk the life and health of you, your foetus or others.

Please don't ask for us any further support on preventing this situation because we will not provide it"

YellowHighHeels · 09/09/2024 09:31

People have strong feelings on abortion either way.

It's far better that this is recognised and there are routes and policies that accommodate these views in clinicians and obligate them to refer patients elsewhere than have to act against their principles and potentially not do so properly. Say, by persuading vulnerable patients against their initial decision (either intentionally or by being uncomfortable making referrals and dissuading the patient without meaning to).

Far better that they have a simple obligation to say 'ring this number'

Re the job, it is legal. I think they're being transparent about it. Perhaps you could call and ask how it works in practice, ensuring that patients, particularly vulnerable patients, access the services they need (in line with their own beliefs) without oversight from the GP. If you'd prefer to work somewhere without those policies that's understandable. I'd ask tactfully, because you've never come across the policy.

Timeforaglassofwine · 09/09/2024 09:31

Soontobe60 · 09/09/2024 08:14

You cannot force people to act against their beliefs in any circumstances. We aren’t Russia, we aren’t Afghanistan, we aren’t North Korea. You cannot have a society where we actively encourage difference of opinions then tell people ‘no, not your opinion, that doesn’t count’. What we do have is an NHS system whereby women can access abortion services in different ways. Fortunately, we don’t live in a country where abortion is illegal in the vast majority of cases.

I strongly disagree. Of course they are allowed opinions, and of course no one should be forced to do a job that conflicts with their ethics. But if their religion / belief puts an obstacle in the path of a potentially vulnerable woman accessing healthcare, then don't be an NHS GP.

FOJN · 09/09/2024 09:23

If they have an obligation to refer women seeking termination then they do not need to state their position on abortion.

It's advertising their ideological position on an aspect of healthcare, that is not neutral and therefore not professional and should not be tolerated.

NeedBiggerWindChimes · 09/09/2024 09:11

Naunet · 09/09/2024 09:03

This is disgusting. Yes individual doctors should be able to hold a ‘pro-life’ opinion, but to advertise the whole GP service that way? How is that allowed?

I think it's good they advertise this way. It might save women the run around or a difficult experience if they know before even making an appointment.

Being pro-choice to me also means allowing for people to have different values. I fully support doctors and other professionals having the choice over participating in services that are contrary to their personal consciences. As long as they are professional in how they carry that out and make the referrals to someone who will refer as required.

I would refuse to participate in an abortion in a professional context. I don't mind what the woman does but I have to sleep at night too. If she is comfortable, fine. I don't have to be.

Naunet · 09/09/2024 09:03

This is disgusting. Yes individual doctors should be able to hold a ‘pro-life’ opinion, but to advertise the whole GP service that way? How is that allowed?

ClippyMuldoon · 09/09/2024 08:59

Everyone is pro-life. This GP is anti-choice and not a provider of women's healthcare.

GlassRat · 09/09/2024 08:57

I am pro-choice, and in fact find the term pro-life offensive. They mean anti-choice. It's crazy to me that GPs are allowed to choose what healthcare they think is allowable.

I had a really horrible and traumatic experience with a GP when pg though, that was the opposite of this. I had hyperemesis and was hoping to be prescribed anti-sickness meds, as I had in a previous pg. The GP asked me if I'd considered abortion. I said that it wasn't a consideration for this pg, that we wanted the baby and were in a good position to care for it. But she pressed and pressed, asking me if I thought termination was akin to killing, etc etc. I told her I didn't believe that at all and that women should feel free to choose, but she went on about it. I was quite upset about that, because I agreed with her stance but not the way she went about it.

copingwithreception · 09/09/2024 08:22

It’s either some kind of wording mistake (which would make them stupid to not know the offence it would cause!) or they mean they aren’t restricting services but you would then know they are judging you which is unecessary and unprofessional .

copingwithreception · 09/09/2024 08:21

StuckOnTheCeiling · 09/09/2024 07:00

They do not offer all the services I expect from a GP.

They do not offer many popular forms of contraception - IUDs, the implant.

They do not offer the morning after pill.

They will not refer a patient for an abortion if requested.

For all of these they would, if requested, refer you to another GP (or pharmacist for MAP), for you to request that they provide the contraception or refer you for an abortion. Given that timelines are already tight for abortions and many women already wait longer than they should, this would delay things even further.

It clearly says they will refer for termination.

Many gp surgeries do not offer those services in my area it’s all done at the sexual health clinics the gp just refers. So they aren’t actually doing anything different they don’t even need that ‘pro life’ statement for any reason other than to draw attention to something as it’s not affecting the level of care they offer ?

spicysugar · 09/09/2024 08:18

User56473 · 08/09/2024 22:35

It shouldn't be allowed. But unfortunately the NHS allows drs working within it to opt out of a key part of healthcare because it affects females. SHOCK. I've had the most horrific experience when I was effectively marooned in a hospital (not my local but in the UK) with complications due to an abortion. All the drs in the gyne department were anti abortionists who refused to treat me, yet I wasn't well enough to be discharged. I had a ebf baby at the time and didn't realise my rights as a breastfeeding mum, and that I could have insisted on baby being in with me. The whole experience still makes me seethe with rage when I think on it 5 years on. It was because of the wise women of MN that the whole situation was sorted for me actually!

That's outrageous. It's one thing being able to opt out of performing abortions, it's quite another to refuse treatment for someone with medical needs because you don't like something they have done. That absolutely should be illegal.

Summerhillsquare · 09/09/2024 08:16

Beliefs don't trump scientific evidence.

Soontobe60 · 09/09/2024 08:14

Summerhillsquare · 08/09/2024 23:17

It's shockingly inappropriate, and displays a worrying ignorance for supposedly scientifically minded professionals. Abortion is a necessary healthcare procedure for some women, and denying legal abortion leads to tragedy, injury and death.

You cannot force people to act against their beliefs in any circumstances. We aren’t Russia, we aren’t Afghanistan, we aren’t North Korea. You cannot have a society where we actively encourage difference of opinions then tell people ‘no, not your opinion, that doesn’t count’. What we do have is an NHS system whereby women can access abortion services in different ways. Fortunately, we don’t live in a country where abortion is illegal in the vast majority of cases.

CurrentHun · 09/09/2024 08:14

I wouldn’t want to work there. Doctoring is not about inflicting your views on your patients.
I’d be running that job ad past the GMC for advice as well.

HeritageVegetable · 09/09/2024 08:11

thecrossiamwearing · 09/09/2024 01:05

Perhaps it is something to do with the religion of the doctors concerned?

Possibly they're all Christian but they're certainly not all the same cultural background.

letmego24 · 09/09/2024 08:07

Clownwithafrown · 08/09/2024 22:15

I'm job hunting and came across an ad for a medical receptionist at a GP surgery. I wasn't sure where exactly this particular surgery was so googled it and this statement was on the home page; 'The Doctors here at xxxx Surgery are committed to a 'pro-life' policy. This means that the Doctors value each individual’s 'life' from conception to natural death.'

I'm not reading that wrong am I, they are stating that they're anti abortion aren't they? Surely that shouldn't be allowed at an NHS practice should it? I'm a bit gobsmacked that it's blatantly there on the home page, literally the first thing you see when you click on the site. And it clearly means all the doctors, I mean obviously people don't have to register with that surgery but for there to be no options for those who already are registered just doesn't seem right to me. Does anyone know if this is actually allowed?

I think ask them. Drs do not have to refer for TOP but they can provide details of somewhere that can so that will be provided.
It's an odd thing to put re natural death - we all care until natural death !! Euthanasia isn't legal in the uk and even if it were it wouldn't be GPs doing it!! Maybe it reflects the patient population queries or something ??

HeritageVegetable · 09/09/2024 08:06

GirlOfThe70s · 09/09/2024 07:08

I live in a village with only one GP. He will not refer for terminations, nor will he prescribe the morning-after pill.

That's terrible. The surgery the OP is talking about is in an urban area at least with other surgeries around.

whatkatydid2014 · 09/09/2024 08:05

Lorelaigilmore88 · 09/09/2024 00:51

There's PLENTY of words you could have used rather than that! What is the matter with you.

I did think reading it - “resolution of a missed miscarriage” would have been clear enough.
It’s effectively the same procedure as an abortion. Medically it was called an evacuation of retained products of contraception when I had one and I think that’s not really much better in terms of a sensitive description 😕

HeritageVegetable · 09/09/2024 08:03

They don't offer the MAP, or the IUD (many GPs don't do the latter tbf). They just refer you on. And they'll refer you on for abortion requests.

"We provide advice on the risks and benefits of all methods of contraception. We provide the oral contraceptive pill (both combined and mini-pill) and the contraceptive injection.
We will refer patients to the appropriate service provider for contraceptive implants, intrauterine devices, emergency contraception and requests for termination of pregnancy."

Timeforaglassofwine · 09/09/2024 07:52

I'm all for the general public being allowed to have an opinion, but I think if a Doctor wants to say they are pro life, then they shouldn't be an NHS GP. This isn't about religion, opinions, morals - if you want that talk to a Priest. This is about healthcare paid for by the tax payer.