AIBU to think that the anti UPF books and diets around at the moment are just a new version of Clean Eating?

And there hasn't been anything credible written to discredit it either, that's the key thing, guess who funds the people who have tried?

It's the constant reference to THE BOOK that annoys me, like it's the gospel of all food knowledge. The word of Chris.

Look I do get that I really do, lol, but it's a concept that has only started being widely recognised since 2017 so there isn't a lot out there on the topic, and the book frankly is bloody eye opening. And if you're trying to express an opinion on the topic and haven't read it, quite frankly, the opinion is pretty irrelevant because it will be so wildly uninformed unless you've somehow delved into the depths of scientific journals, which frankly, still do not cover the political and social elements the book does.

Then we are not talking about poor people, we are talking about low income Americans and Brits who by international standards of being poor at under 2 dollars a day are still doing well enough to be able to afford snacks, sweets and alcohol.

Yep.

I really don't get the argument that UPF's are cheaper than food made from scratch. If I was buying bags of Doritos, bars of chocolate, jars of sauce, gluten free bread (I'm coeliac and so is one child), cereals, microwave meals, etc., I'd be spending a sodding fortune.

As it is I just buy seasonal veg, fish (which people say is expensive, but it doesn't work out that way if you're not buying vats of fizzy drinks), beans and pulses, so on and so forth. I batch cook once a week which takes me maybe four hours with help from DH, and we get the kids involved (they love it and it's teaching good skills). Even if I'm preparing a meal from scratch mid-week it doesn't take longer than 40 minutes at a push. We both work full time jobs.

Baking bread is easy. We're not big snackers here, but there's fruit, nuts, homemade hummus available. We bake scones and things too.

I grew up with my Dad making meals from scratch every night. Eating out consisted of going to the chippy on occasion, not visiting McDonalds or KFC for breakfast several times a week, or Starbucks for the equivalent of a meal in one single coffee plus a panini.

It's weird to me how UPF and fast food is seen as the norm, and there's this message that preparing your own food costs an extortionate amount and takes loads of time. It's nonsense.

I think the key thing here is recognising that evolutionary drives are exceptionally strong so if we were asking people to overcome them, particularly in the face of the massive weight of capitalism's advertising/precision design to make things tempting, then we should regulate the industries to try and enable people to eat well without it being purely an exercise in "willpower".

Absolutely fair. We need regulation, though I don't know much about how to achieve that. Jamie Oliver did try but became even more unpopular!

I don't think anyone is saying that this is a good thing.

They're saying it's an adaptation (seek high calorie foods and store fat in case of famine) which has now become maladaptive.

You see examples of this all the time in nature as well - butterflies which were light coloured became highly visible to birds against soot coloured buildings so a greyer variant became more populous.

The problem is if the maladaptation doesn't do you much harm until after you've reproduced then there's no evolutionary drive to change.

Anyway, I digress. I think the key thing here is recognising that evolutionary drives are exceptionally strong so if we were asking people to overcome them, particularly in the face of the massive weight of capitalism's advertising/precision design to make things tempting, then we should regulate the industries to try and enable people to eat well without it being purely an exercise in "willpower".

It's the constant reference to THE BOOK that annoys me, like it's the gospel of all food knowledge. The word of Chris.

I have three kids so time is sparce. We still have UPF but much less. For us, in this point in our family's life, it's about doing what we can with a view that when time allows in the future, we'll continue to improve our diet.

Some change is better than none.

Oh for god's sake, it's got nothing to do with women at all, it's for anyone!

The crap they put in all kinds of food is very worrying. Hardly any food doesn't contain additional chemicals and additives now.

It's not about weight, it's about health.

It's fact. The industry is profit driven and the food we eat is poor quality. It's nothing to do with hating yourself, quite the opposite actually. If you love yourself, you want to stay healthy and invest in your future self.

I very much believe that the reason poverty and obesity are linked is not necessarily to do with costs.

I feel like many poorer people are often bored and or miserable. Not always but more likely to be. Food is an affordable, socially acceptable and available dopamine hit.

Genuine question, but is there anyone here who HAS read Ultra Processed People who thinks the issue is blown up or some misguided middle class virtue signalling at best, or money making at worst? Because I've genuinely not come across a single person who HAS read the book who has taken that view?

It seems to me it's the people who are feeling frustrated by the inconvenient truth and it all comes across a bit Trump vs climate change. Denying the facts.

YANBU that it's unrealistic for working parents, because that's partly why this shit was invented. I personally choose no kids and plenty of cooking and baking using many home-grown or foraged ingredients, because I have time. 😊

The book doesn't advocate or say its realistic to quit UPF.

Its more of an expose of the food system which is messed up.

What's needed are affordable alternatives. Decent bread for example that is affordable. British bread is fucking embarrassing.

Your tastes and cravings adapt to your diet.

Most food habits are self-perpetuating.

If you’re not in the habit of eating processed foods you don’t tend to crave them or find them appetising.

Also, cheap chocolate tastes crap and unsatisfying and burns your throat if you’re used to eating nice food.

On the other hand if you eat stuff like doritos and creme eggs a lot, tofu and veg probably taste really bland.

I don’t disagree. But then the argument that eating low processed food and cooking at home is expensive is not valid.
My grandmother would eat cooked potatoes and kefir (homemade, made from the cheapest milk) as the main meal when times were tough and she was on a tight budget. A meal like that is significantly cheaper than a ready-made meal followed by snacks.

I fully expect UPFs to be the tobacco of the future.

People are going to be horrified at how it was considered acceptable to eat them in excess, just like it was once acceptable to smoke.

I don't have the time, energy or money to bother about it
I do cook from scratch mostly but I also eat crisps, chicken nuggets, gravy granules, mayo etc. Some days I just about manage cereal and a banana for my evening meal

Regardless of what side of an argument you are on, presenting anecdotes like this as any kind of “proof” is not at all helpful. My grandfather smoked for sixty five years and died at a ripe old age of a non-smoking related cause. This is not evidence that smoking is not harmful.

But, much like UPFs, it's not as simple as "this is bad so don't do it" as there are many complex socio-economic factors behind why people do it and making it an issue of virtue is a middle-class obsession as it entirely ignores the reasons why people will still do it despite knowing they shouldn't. As a PP said, it gives certain people something to feel superior about.

I'm "obsessed" with the concept of UPFs and I assure you the only people I demonise are the capitalist companies making billions of pounds from vulnerable people knowing full well the impact of what they're doing. Have you read the book? Done any reading into it? This is not a class war, it is a war on capitalism, governments should be doing more to reign in these companies ESPECIALLY in terms of marketing and ESPECIALLY in terms of young people.

I know full well why people are hooked on UPFs, it's a system that has been designed. It is going to be incredibly difficult to untangle, but I absolutely believe to the core of my being that this will be the scandal of our generation that will be studied for centuries. Call me superior all you want.

Why compare tofu and sauerkraut to Doritos and creme eggs? They are not at all in the same category of things. The number of people regularly choosing to replace dinner with snack food must be small. Even the full bag of Doritos will not fill you up like a normal dinner.

Doritos might make a more appetising snack than oat cakes, but items should be compared with items of a similar food category. This is like saying that blueberry jam is more appetising than lamb chops.

This with bells on!

This. And ordinary food is the norm in many cultures even today.

Until the likes of Nestle strategically infiltrate, get communities hooked and directly cause a huge rise in obesity 🤬🤬 and then have a community to sell their "health" products to.

One of the nearest comparisons to UPFs is smoking, I suspect there was a lot of naysayers when the health warnings about smoking started to come about, who was right then? Was it a 'middle class obsession'?

But, much like UPFs, it's not as simple as "this is bad so don't do it" as there are many complex socio-economic factors behind why people do it and making it an issue of virtue is a middle-class obsession as it entirely ignores the reasons why people will still do it despite knowing they shouldn't. As a PP said, it gives certain people something to feel superior about.

Agree with this! Nowhere are individuals criticised, it’s the food industry and governments who are blamed.
Drs around the world are very worried about the number of younger people getting and dying from bowel cancer and they believe it may be linked to all the UPF we eat.
I don’t understand why people are so against a bit of extra knowledge. Not many can go full no UPF, but if we know about the risks we can try to make some choices based on that knowledge.

@TeaforTheWins I agree with you. I also think that the food-related stress and guilt that coverage of the harms of UPF (and supposedly related illnesses) induces must have a negative impact on our health.